Discussion:
Of New Testament Canon
(too old to reply)
Matthew
2008-05-23 23:31:32 UTC
Permalink
The New Testament canon used by the Western Church, in particular
Protestants has 27 books. But this is not the canon used by the
Eastern Church, which is only 22 books all written by Jews. The
Eastern Church has always rejected five spurious and forged books
(whose authors were Greeks not Jewish). These books are the Church of
the East (COE) labels "Apocryphal":

1. Revelation
2. 2 John
3. 3 John
4. 2 Peter
5. Jude

Even Martin Luther, a Western Christian scholar who studied the book
of Revelation analysing its authorship concluded it was not of
Johanine authorship. He futher accused the Roman Catholic Church of
adding it into the Bible without authority. The monk Martin wrote a
letter to the Patriarch of the Church of the East (which was
discovered by archeologists commissioned by President Saddam Hussein)
that praised the Nestorians for also not accepting Roman Catholic
forgery called "book of Revelation" as Johannine. Tragically, most
Lutherans and Martin himself rejected Aramaic primacy, for if they had
accepted Nestorianism, there would be no Protestant reformation but a
Nestorian reformation.

COE official Bible the Peshitta text has an Old Testament canon which
includes what protestants call "Apocryphal books" but our New
Testament excludes 5 books in the Protestant canon, which the COE
refers to as forgeries by the Greeks. Majority of Western scholars,
both Catholic and Protestant alike agree that 2 Peter was never
written by Apostle Peter. Likewise, even HH Pope Benedict XVI has
acknowledged that both 2 Peter and 3 John were not written by apostles
during their lifetime but sometime in the 2nd century to counter
certain heresies.

--
regards,
Matthew L. Hedrick

----

[To avoid confusion: typically people in this group refer to the
Eastern church they are thinking of the Eastern Orthodox churches.
They agree with Protestants on the NT canon, although disagreeing on
the OT canon. I believe Matthew is referring to the body described
here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_East

--clh]
Catherine Jefferson
2008-05-26 18:05:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew
The New Testament canon used by the Western Church, in particular
Protestants has 27 books. But this is not the canon used by the
Eastern Church, which is only 22 books all written by Jews.
??? I'm Eastern Orthodox, and this is news to me. We accept the same
27 books that the Catholic and mainstream Protestant churches accept.
Post by Matthew
The Eastern Church has always rejected five spurious and forged books
(whose authors were Greeks not Jewish). These books are the Church of
1. Revelation
2. 2 John
3. 3 John
4. 2 Peter
5. Jude
What are you calling the "Church of the East"?
Post by Matthew
[To avoid confusion: typically people in this group refer to the
Eastern church they are thinking of the Eastern Orthodox churches.
They agree with Protestants on the NT canon, although disagreeing on
the OT canon. I believe Matthew is referring to the body described
here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_East
Ah. He's talking about the Nestorian church. All is now clear. :)


Under His mercy,
--
Catherine Jefferson <***@devsite.org>
Personal Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
Matthew
2008-05-31 03:19:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Catherine Jefferson
Post by Matthew
The New Testament canon used by the Western Church, in particular
Protestants has 27 books. But this is not the canon used by the
Eastern Church, which is only 22 books all written by Jews.
??? I'm Eastern Orthodox, and this is news to me. We accept the same
27 books that the Catholic and mainstream Protestant churches accept.
Perhaps you misunderstood me as these days English words can have
many meanings amid nominalism. The "Eastern" Orthodox Church is
really a Western Church and it has many better names, such as Old
Roman Catholics, the Greek Church, or Church of the Seven Synods.
The 27 book canon was created by the so-called "Ecumenical" Synod
of Ephesus, which most modern scholars consider a robber synod
presided by a Monophysite Bishop Cyril. The CoE scholars like Dr
George M Lamsa claim it was at Ephesus that primacy of the Aramaic
New Testament (which has only 22-books) was rejected.

Saint Nestorius' teachings were clearly in line with the orthodoxy of
Chalcedon but in Antiochian terms but Cyril the Monophysite gave
false witness (slander) using forged sermons falsely attributed to the
Blessed Nestorius. Many Eastern fathers such as Mar Aphrahat
(called in the West, Saint Aphrahat) and Mar Bahlul the Persian
always upheld orthodoxy of Mar Nestorios.
Post by Catherine Jefferson
Post by Matthew
The Eastern Church has always rejected five spurious and forged books
(whose authors were Greeks not Jewish). These books are the Church of
1. Revelation
2. 2 John
3. 3 John
4. 2 Peter
5. Jude
What are you calling the "Church of the East"?
By Church of the East (CoE for short) I refer to the Church under
the leadership of His Holiness Catholicos-Patriarch Mar Dinkha IV
of Babylon.
Post by Catherine Jefferson
Post by Matthew
[To avoid confusion: typically people in this group refer to the
Eastern church they are thinking of the Eastern Orthodox churches.
They agree with Protestants on the NT canon, although disagreeing on
the OT canon. I believe Matthew is referring to the body described
here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_East
Ah. He's talking about the Nestorian church. All is now clear. :)
We are NOT "Nestorian" and Blessed Nestorius of Constantinople
was was never "Nestorian" as falsely portrayed by ambitious Cyril.
On the contrary, Blessed Nestorius remained faithful to the
orthodoxy of the Nicene fathers. He is a doctor of the Western
Church, which ceased to exist after Ephesus.

However, a few years ago, the Church of the West, which is also
called Western Orthodoxy was re-established when His Holiness
Mar Dinkha IV ordained a former Greek Orthodox monk, Irineos
to become the first** Western Patriarch of Constantinople.

** First since Blessed Nestorius was deposed through falsehoods
by ambitious pharaoh Cyril in 431 C.E.

For more information, check out the Church of the West web site:

http://www.churchofthewest.org/patriarch_irineos_of_constantinople/

CoW is in full commuion with the CoE and together we honor the
memory of Blessed Nestorius of Constantinople.

--
Best regards,
Matthew L. Hedrick

omprem
2008-05-26 18:05:04 UTC
Permalink
Christianity of whatever stripe stopped being Christianity when the
bishops of the First Council of Nicea sold themselves out for a
little bit of power and took power from the rest of Christianity by
issuing their proclamations. Constantine effectively eliminated a
potential opposition by the old tactic of divide and conquer.
Post by Matthew
The New Testament canon used by the Western Church, in particular
Protestants has 27 books. But this is not the canon used by the
Eastern Church, which is only 22 books all written by Jews. The
Eastern Church has always rejected five spurious and forged books
(whose authors were Greeks not Jewish). These books are the Church of
the East (COE) labels "Apocryphal"
...
Matthew Johnson
2008-05-27 01:13:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by omprem
Christianity of whatever stripe stopped being Christianity when the
bishops of the First Council of Nicea sold themselves out for a
little bit of power and took power from the rest of Christianity by
issuing their proclamations. Constantine effectively eliminated a
potential opposition by the old tactic of divide and conquer.
So many myths in one small paragraph! No, nobody "sold themselves out" at Nicea.
For a _reliable_ history of what happened there see "The First Seven Ecumenical
Councils" by Leo Donald Davis.

Or, for those of you who read Russian, you can get an even _better_ history at:

http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/russian/vselenskie_sobory_kartashev.htm

[snip]
--
------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
Menno van Barneveld
2008-05-26 18:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew
The New Testament canon used by the Western Church, in particular
Protestants has 27 books. But this is not the canon used by the
Eastern Church, which is only 22 books all written by Jews. The
Eastern Church has always rejected five spurious and forged books
(whose authors were Greeks not Jewish). These books are the Church of
1. Revelation
2. 2 John
3. 3 John
4. 2 Peter
5. Jude
Even Martin Luther, a Western Christian scholar who studied the book
of Revelation analysing its authorship concluded it was not of
Johanine authorship. He futher accused the Roman Catholic Church of
adding it into the Bible without authority. The monk Martin wrote a
letter to the Patriarch of the Church of the East (which was
discovered by archeologists commissioned by President Saddam Hussein)
that praised the Nestorians for also not accepting Roman Catholic
forgery called "book of Revelation" as Johannine. Tragically, most
Lutherans and Martin himself rejected Aramaic primacy, for if they had
accepted Nestorianism, there would be no Protestant reformation but a
Nestorian reformation.
COE official Bible the Peshitta text has an Old Testament canon which
includes what protestants call "Apocryphal books" but our New
Testament excludes 5 books in the Protestant canon, which the COE
refers to as forgeries by the Greeks. Majority of Western scholars,
both Catholic and Protestant alike agree that 2 Peter was never
written by Apostle Peter. Likewise, even HH Pope Benedict XVI has
acknowledged that both 2 Peter and 3 John were not written by apostles
during their lifetime but sometime in the 2nd century to counter
certain heresies.
--
regards,
Matthew L. Hedrick
Dear Matthew,

Jesus Christ our lord let me correct the apocrive letter of Juda in the
heavenly text.
He let me do that with the gospel from Matthew also.
Post by Matthew
From this I know that Jude was written by the apostle Jude, a son of Joseph
and so a brother of Jacobu, who was also a son of Mary and so a brother of
Jesus.
The letter was written at May the 26th of the year 55, and it was hidden at
May the 26th of the year 61.
All holy scriptures doth Hebrew and Greek comply with a mathematical test
that can discriminate them between them and non holy texts. Also the holy
scriptures contain biblecode with prophetic information that proofs them to
be not manmade.
All books in the canon are holy books, that are created from God and
revealed to scribes. This holds for the deuterocanonic books in the Roman
Catholic Old Testament also. There are even a few books that are still not
in the canon today.
I do not considder this as a problem. Only reading the gospel of Matthew
already can make one to become a disciple of Jesus Christ and be saved.
But there is no reason to have doubts on the heavenly origin of any book in
the canons.

May Jesus Christ our lord be a lamp for your feet and a light on your path.

Menno van Barneveld.
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