Discussion:
The warning to Baruch
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Jacob
2007-12-09 23:47:16 UTC
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Baruch was an assistant to the Prophet Jeremiah, who wrote down on
scrolls what Jeremiah dictated, and read it out in the temple and
before the king. He may have had a scholarly mind and skills because
Jeremiah entrusted him with noting down the words of God.

But apprently Baruch got a shock when he faced opposition from the
king and other high officials for standing with Jeremiah and writing
down his words (Je.45:3). He thought that God was not being fair to
him, considering what he was doing for Him.

But God understood the root cause of Baruch's problems. He told Baruch
through Jeremiah, "But you, are you seeking great things for yourself?
Do not seek them; for behold, I am going to bring disaster on all
flesh" (Je.45:5). Do we hear this warning from God now and then? If we
do, it shows us that we have not become totally dull of hearing,
because this is something we need to hear often.

There is a saying in the world that people are generally seeking after
one or more of three things - money, fame or pleasure. Even though we
have been advised to seek God's kingdom and His righteousness first
(Mt.6:33), and we know that we cannot serve God and money (or fame or
pleasure) at the same time (Mt.6:24), we are drawn to these things in
our heart many times. We know that the Bible says that all these
worldly lusts will one day pass away (1Jn.2:17), just like God told
Baruch. But yet we are tempted.

These lusts do not disappear even when we are seeking to serve God! We
don't have to look at examples among Christian leaders but we can see
in our own lives how we are tempted to seek money, honour and pleasure
also while we are serving God. The warning to Baruch specially refers
to seeking honour (while he was serving God as a scribe for Jeremiah).

When we do well in Christian service, in whatever form, it is almost
inevitable that we also become well known. People begin to appreciate
what we are doing, and perhaps they tell us so too, or even praise us.
We feel like basking in that glory, and think of the 'sacrifices' we
have made in order to come to this place!

But that was not how Peter reacted when people admired him for healing
a lame man. He told them immediately that it was not he who had made
that man well, but Jesus (Ac.3:12). Paul cried out in horror that
people should think that he was any greater than any other man because
he had healed a man in the name of Jesus (Ac.14:15). These apostles
had the spirit of Christ in them who Himself had always sought to give
the honour to the Father for what He did and said (Jn.5:30).

It may not be always possible to say such things openly. And it is not
that we shouldn't feel thankful that God has blessed us. But shouldn't
we always have the attitude in our heart of acknowledging God? If
there is anything good in us, or we can do anything good, hasn't it
come from God? (Jas.1:17). We ought to remember this constantly. Or
are we perhaps secretly seeking great things for ourselves?
shegeek72
2007-12-14 03:27:50 UTC
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Post by Jacob
There is a saying in the world that people are generally seeking after
one or more of three things - money, fame or pleasure.
That may be one saying, but I think 'to love and to be loved' is more
core to what people seek.
Post by Jacob
Even though we
have been advised to seek God's kingdom and His righteousness first
(Mt.6:33), and we know that we cannot serve God and money (or fame or
pleasure) at the same time (Mt.6:24)
I disagree. This mindset has not only created unneeded conflicts in
the minds of some Christians, but also leads to not getting what we
want in life. We're conditioned it's 'better to give than receive' and
accept gifts with, "You shouldn't have." Why shouldn't they have? It
gave them pleasure to do so! This conditioning closes down our
'receiving channels' and prevents receiving what we want and need.

I used to know people who seemed to be 'lucky' and 'found' or received
things and wondered how they did it! It was through a class in
manifesting abundance that I learned that my receiving channels were
closed. This may sound like pie-in-the-sky, new-agey stuff but it's in
Christianity, for Jesus said, "Ask and you shall receive."

Manifesting abundance not only has basis in Christianity, but in
nature: look how abundant nature is, providing us with everything we
need to live on. There is no need for poverty anywhere! [governments
are primarily responsible for poverty.]

After taking the manifesting abundance class and realizing there's
nothing wrong with wanting everything I wanted in life things began
coming to me. I'd 'find' something I needed, receive money (sometimes
anonymously) and had my surgery (SRS) paid for by a generous gentleman
with no strings attached.

Being abundant and wanting money and being a Christian aren't
incompatible. Of course, there are those who are greedy and obtain
money through fraudulent neams and that certainly isn't Christian-like
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Matthew Johnson
2007-12-17 03:08:43 UTC
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Post by shegeek72
Post by Jacob
There is a saying in the world that people are generally seeking after
one or more of three things - money, fame or pleasure.
That may be one saying, but I think 'to love and to be loved' is more
core to what people seek.
Then why do so many people devote the lian's share of their effort to
money, fame or pleasure instead of "to love and be loved"?
Post by shegeek72
Post by Jacob
Even though we have been advised to seek God's kingdom and His
righteousness first (Mt.6:33), and we know that we cannot serve God
and money (or fame or pleasure) at the same time (Mt.6:24)
I disagree.
Well, so what? Christ disagrees with you, as is _crystal_ clear from
His words:

"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and
love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the
other. You cannot serve God and mammon. "Therefore I tell you, do not
be anxious about your life, what you shall eat or what you shall
drink, nor about your body, what you shall put on. Is not life more
than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the
air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your
heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And
which of you by being anxious can add one cubit to his span of life?
And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the
field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin; yet I tell you, even
Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if God
so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow
is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O men of
little faith? Therefore do not be anxious, saying, 'What shall we
eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the
Gentiles seek all these things; and your heavenly Father knows that
you need them all. (Mat 6:24-32 RSVA)

In case that cite was too long for you to pay attention through to the
end, Solomon also disagreed with you saying:

To get wisdom is better than gold; to get understanding is to be
chosen rather than silver. (Pro 16:16 RSVA)

But of course, since you have turned a deaf ear to wisdom for many
years, you prefer the anti-wisdom of this so-called "abundance class".
Post by shegeek72
This mindset has not only created unneeded conflicts in
the minds of some Christians, but also leads to not getting what we
want in life.
You miss the point: if "what we want in life" is not aligned with what
_Christ_ wants for our lives, then it is NO GOOD.

[snip]
--
-----------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
j***@go.com
2007-12-17 03:08:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Being abundant and wanting money and being a Christian aren't
incompatible. Of course, there are those who are greedy and obtain
money through fraudulent neams and that certainly isn't Christian-like
Hmmm.... Lenny Bruce once said, "I know in my heart
by pure logic that anyone who claims to be a religious
leader and owns more than one suit is a hustler as long
as there is someone who has no suit at all."

-- Jeffrey J. Sargent

j***@go.com
2007-12-17 03:08:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jacob
But God understood the root cause of Baruch's problems. He told Baruch
through Jeremiah, "But you, are you seeking great things for yourself?
Do not seek them; for behold, I am going to bring disaster on all
flesh" (Je.45:5). Do we hear this warning from God now and then? If we
do, it shows us that we have not become totally dull of hearing,
because this is something we need to hear often.
This certainly accords with something I've long said:
Americans need to read the prophets and apply those
writings to themselves -- above all Amos, who, in a
piece of writing shocking to those who first heard it,
bitterly denounced all the surrounding nations, then
denounced Israel and Judah with equal bitterness.
But modern American Christians think it's impossible
that a prophet of today could denounce America with
the same bitterness. There is no reason, Biblical
or otherwise, to believe that.

-- Jeffrey J. Sargent
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