Discussion:
Too many Varying FAITHs in the WORLD! Who's Right?
(too old to reply)
Markus Klinger
2008-01-28 02:13:23 UTC
Permalink
Re: Too many Varying FAITHs in the WORLD! Who's Right?

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Faith & of Faith,

I am on a very serious QUEST for TRUTH!!!

I have a Very DEEP Probing Question for you... ALL!
Of Significance that requires extremely careful consideration and consequences to my own Christian Faith Too!!!

... I ask these questions, because my very OWN Children asked me these questions in recent times, and it got my mind and spirit dwelling and pondering on this deeply.

This is an issue facing many christians and non christians alike, because of all the religious querels and bickering over minor doctrinal and theological differences, many people are turned off of christianity for this very reason.

I would like your DEEP Reflective thoughts on this too!!!

Too many judgemental factions of Christian Faiths and Denominations who all have a claim in who is right and wrong has led to too many religious strife amoungst self professing Christians.

This is NOT how Jesus would want it to be! So divided.
Rather than let LOVE prevail, there is so much spiritual divisions amoungst the bretherens and sisters of the world.

So, if each and all christians share the fundamental basics of the Christian faith and LOVE GOD, but have only slightly different views of THEOLOGY, is GOD not going to overlook the minor ignorances of their beliefs and correct and fill in the gaps of their knowledge when they are brought into HIS own Glorious KINGDOM and Synchronize them ALL later on anyways!?!

I would LOVE to hear your feedback on this view point!
With Scriptures and other angles of views too.
This is a pondering question I am sure I am NOT the ONLY one asking as of recent times.

If Christians follow the basic premises of scriptural rules and basic groundwork of grace, salvation and repentence of sins and faith in JESUS CHRIST, even though their organizational or personal angle of faith is as close as we can hope for in this IMPERFECT world, that GOD would excuse the ignorance difference of that religious institution, church, congregations and factions of Faith and redeem ALL of them into ONE CONVERGENCE again UNTO Himself, as GOD on MANY OCCASSIONS have said HE WISHES NONE TO PE
RISH but to ALL OBTAIN TO EVERLASTING LIFE in HIS HOLY DOMAIN /KINGDOM!)!!!

Very Sincerely, ..... GOD BLESS YOU ... ALL!!!

Markus Klinger
In London Ontario
Canada

519-659-1092

***************************************************************
***************************************************************



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qquito
2008-01-29 00:59:48 UTC
Permalink
What's wrong to be divided? In fact, the Christian God wishes to see a
messy, divided, and conflicting world. We should be happy how the
existence of various "factions" and "denominations" agree with what
the Bible says:

(The following are from the King James Version Bible.)
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came
not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his
father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law
against her mother in law.
Matthew 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Since Jesus is God, what God wants it to be is what Jesus wants it to
be.
Post by Markus Klinger
Re: Too many Varying FAITHs in the WORLD! Who's Right?
......
This is NOT how Jesus would want it to be! So divided.
Rather than let LOVE prevail, there is so much spiritual divisions amoungst the bretherens and sisters of the world.
......
Matthew Johnson
2008-01-30 01:32:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by qquito
What's wrong to be divided?
You are asking the wrong question. Judging from the rest of your post,
you should have asked "what's wrong with quoting out of context?".
Post by qquito
In fact, the Christian God wishes to see a
messy, divided, and conflicting world.
Wrong. You are jumping to this false conclusion based on quoting out
of context. VERY out of context.
Post by qquito
We should be happy how the existence of various "factions" and
No, we should not, because it does NOT agree. It only agrees with your
perverse misinterpretation based on an out of context quote.
Post by qquito
(The following are from the King James Version Bible.)
That is part of the problem, but only a small part.
Post by qquito
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came
not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his
father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law
against her mother in law. Matthew 10:36 And a man's foes shall be
they of his own household.
Since Jesus is God, what God wants it to be is what Jesus wants it to
be.
That is the only part you got right. All the more the pity, then, that
you meant it ironically.

Now just to see how impossible your conclusion really is, lets take a
look at some other Bible citations, citations which contradict you:

For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but
THAT THE WORLD MIGHT BE SAVED THROUGH HIM. He who believes in him is
not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because
he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is
the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved
darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every
one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light,
lest his deeds should be exposed. (Joh 3:17-20 RSVA, capitalization
mine)

This alone already disproves your gross conclusion. For how could he
wish for the division, if he came to save the WORLD? It also explains
why you insist on perverting Scripture instead of taking the effort to
actually understand it.

But wait! There's more! We also have:

"I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me
through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father,
art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the
world may believe that thou hast sent me. (Joh 17:20-21 RSVA)

These too, are the words of Jesus. And what do they say? They say He
_explicitly_ expressed His wish that all believers be one.

But wait! There is _still_ yet more:

I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of
the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and
meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to
maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one
body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that
belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and
Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. (Eph
4:1-6 RSVA)

Is it clear to you yet? His wish is for unity among believers in
Him. Not only that, but a unity the like of which the world had never
seen before, unity in His Body. In fact, that entire Epistle is a call
to such unity, and as such, the basis for all sound ecclesiology ever
since.

ALl these citations show that you could not possibly be right. So how
did you go wrong? You must have quoted out of context. So now try
looking at the rest of the chapter: Mat 10:1-33 are _all_ about His
instructions to the disciples as they go to preach the Word. And those
instructions include the warning that men will hate them for it, and
exhortation to endure the persecution. So of course the very following
verses, which you quoted _so_ out of context, are also about that
persecution. They express what He knows will happen, NOT His intent.

Are you one of these persecutors, 'quito'? Is that why you had to pass
over the verses that show the context? Is that why you are so
perversely determined to come up with nonsensical and blasphemous
perversions of Scripture?
--
-----------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
B.G. Kent
2008-01-30 01:32:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by qquito
What's wrong to be divided? In fact, the Christian God wishes to see a
messy, divided, and conflicting world. We should be happy how the
existence of various "factions" and "denominations" agree with what
B - I don't agree. The Biblicist God might appear to want this..if you
accept those lines are Jesus saying them and not man who added it later or
misinterpreted it later...but I don't believe that Jesus, the man...wanted
us to be divided. Accepting of diversity..accepting of the many wonders
and varieties that God can create is one thing...thinking that each flower
is not connected in the same garden soil, is another.


Blessings
Bren
shrikanth
2008-02-04 01:22:33 UTC
Permalink
RELIGIONS

We will look into the major world faith systems...Hinduism, New Age,
Buddhism, Islam, and Christianity.* here I would like to share a brief
description of each religion, its distinguishing characteristics, and
what a person can gain from each. Then I'll present for your
consideration, the ways in which Jesus' teaching differs from the
world's religions.

Hinduism

Most Hindus worship one Being of ultimate oneness (Brahman) through
infinite representations of gods and goddesses. These various
manifestations of gods and goddesses become incarnate within idols,
temples, gurus, rivers, animals, etc.
Hindus see their position in this present life as based on their
actions in a previous life. If their behavior before was evil, they
might experience tremendous hardships in this life. A Hindu's goal is
to become free from the law of karma...to be free from continuous
reincarnations.
There are three possible ways to end this cycle of karma: 1. BE
lovingly devoted to any of the Hindu gods or goddesses; 2. Grow in
knowledge through meditation of Brahman (oneness)...to realize that
circumstances in life are not real, that selfhood is an illusion and
only Brahman is real; 3. Be dedicated to various religious ceremonies
and rites.
In Hinduism, a person has the freedom to choose how to work toward
spiritual perfection. Hinduism also has a possible explanation for the
suffering and evil in the world. According to Hinduism, the suffering
anyone experiences, whether it is sickness or starvation or a
disaster, is due that person because of their own evil actions,
usually from a previous lifetime. Only the soul matters which will one
day be free of the cycle of rebirths and be at rest.
New Age
New Age promotes the development of the person's own power or
divinity. When referring to God, a follower of New Age is not talking
about a transcendent, personal God who created the universe, but is
referring to a higher consciousness within themselves. A person in New
Age would see themselves as God, the cosmos, the universe. In fact,
everything that the person sees, hears, feels or imagines is to be
considered divine.

The Earth is viewed as the source of all spirituality, and has its
own intelligence, emotions and deity. But superseding all is self.
Self is the originator, controller and God of all. There is no reality
outside of what the person determines.
New Age teaches a wide array of eastern mysticism and spiritual,
metaphysical and psychic techniques, such as breathing exercises,
chanting, drumming, meditating...to develop an altered consciousness
and one's own divinity.
Anything negative a person experiences (failures, sadness, anger,
selfishness, hurt) is considered an illusion. Believing themselves to
be completely sovereign over their life, nothing about their life is
wrong, negative or painful. Eventually a person develops spiritually
to the degree that there is no objective, external reality. A person,
becoming a god, creates their own reality.

Buddhism

Buddhists do not worship any gods or God. People outside of Buddhism
often think that Buddhists worship the Buddha. However, the Buddha
(Siddhartha Gautama) never claimed to be divine, but rather he is
viewed by Buddhists as having attained what they are also striving to
attain, which is spiritual enlightenment and, with it, freedom from
the continuous cycle of life and death. Most Buddhists believe a
person has countless rebirths, which inevitably include suffering. A
Buddhist seeks to end these rebirths. Buddhists believe it is a
person's cravings, aversion and delusion that cause these rebirths.
Therefore, the goal of a Buddhist is to purify one's heart and to let
go off all yearnings toward sensual desires and the attachment to
oneself.
Buddhists follow a list of religious principles and very dedicated
meditation. When a Buddhist meditates it is not the same as praying or
focusing on a god, it is more of a self-discipline. Through practiced
meditation a person may reach Nirvana -- "the blowing out" of the
flame of desire.
Buddhism provides something that is true of most world religions:
disciplines, values and directives that a person may want to live by.

Islam

Muslims believe there is the one almighty God, named Allah, who is
infinitely superior to and transcendent from humankind. Allah is
viewed as the creator of the universe and the source of all good and
all evil. Everything that happens, is Allah's will. He is a powerful
and strict judge, who will be merciful toward followers depending on
the sufficiency of their life's good works and religious devotion. A
follower's relationship with Allah is as a servant to Allah.
Though a Muslim honors several prophets, Muhammad is considered the
last prophet and his words and lifestyle are that person's authority.
To be a Muslim, one has to follow five religious duties: 1. Repeat a
creed about Allah and Muhammad; 2. Recite certain prayers in Arabic
five times a day; 3. Give to the needy; 4. One month each year, fast
from food, drink, sex and smoking from sunrise to sunset; 5.
Pilgrimage once in one's lifetime to worship at a shrine in Mecca. At
death -- based on one's faithfulness to these duties -- a Muslim hopes
to enter Paradise, a place of sensual pleasure. If not, they will be
eternally punished in hell.
For many people, Islam matches their expectations about religion and
deity. Islam teaches that there is one supreme God, who is worshiped
through good deeds and disciplined religious rituals. After death a
person is rewarded or punished according to their religious devotion.

Christianity -- faith in Jesus Christ

We Christians believe in a loving God who has revealed himself and can
be personally known in this life. With Jesus Christ, the person's
focus is not on religious rituals or performing good works, but on
enjoying a relationship with God and growing to know him better.
Faith in Jesus Christ himself, not just in his teachings, is how the
Christian experiences joy and a meaningful life. In his life on Earth,
Jesus did not identify himself as a prophet pointing to God or as a
teacher of enlightenment. Rather, Jesus claimed to be God in human
form. He performed miracles, forgave people of their sin and said that
anyone who believed in him would have eternal life. He made statements
like, "I am the light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in
darkness, but will have the light of life."1
Christians regard the Bible as God's written message to humankind. In
addition to its being an historical record of Jesus' life and
miracles, the Bible reveals God's personality, his love and truth, and
how one can have a relationship with him.
Whatever circumstances a Christian is dealing with in their life, they
can confidently turn to a wise and powerful God who genuinely loves
them. WE believe that God answers prayer and that life takes on
meaning as WE live to honor him.
Is there a difference?
In looking at these major belief systems and their views of God, we
find tremendous diversity:
* Hindus acknowledge multitudes of gods and goddesses.
* Buddhists say there is no God.
* New Age followers believe they themselves are God.
* Muslims believe in a powerful but unknowable God.
* Christians believe in a God who is loving and approachable.
Are all religions worshiping the same God? Let's consider that. New
Age teaches that everyone should come to center on a cosmic
consciousness, but it would require Islam to give up their one God,
Hinduism to give up their numerous gods, and Buddhism to establish
that there is a God.
The world's major religions (Hinduism, New Age, Buddhism, Islam,
following Jesus Christ) differs in many ways. And of these one affirms
that there is a personal, loving God who can be known, now in this
life. Jesus Christ spoke of a God who welcomes us into a relationship
with him and comes along side us as a comforter, counselor and
powerful God who loves us.
In Hinduism a person is on their own trying to gain release from
karma. In New Age a person is working at their own divinity. In
Buddhism it is an individual quest at being free from desire. And in
Islam, the individual follows religious laws for the sake of paradise
after death. In Jesus' teaching, you see a personal relationship with
a personal God -- a relationship that carries over into the next
life.
Well Can a person connect with God in this life?
The answer is yes. Not only u can connect with God, you also can know
that you are fully accepted and loved by God.
Many world religions place an individual on their own, striving for
spiritual perfection. Buddha, for example, never claimed sinlessness.
Muhammad also admitted that he was in need of forgiveness. "No matter
how wise, no matter how gifted, no matter how influential other
prophets, gurus, and teachers might be, they had the presence of mind
to know that they were imperfect just like the rest of us."2
Jesus Christ, however, never alluded to any personal sin. Instead,
Jesus forgave people of their sin and he wants to forgive us of our
sin also. We all are aware of our faults, the areas of our lives that
may cause others to think less of us, areas that we ourselves wish
were not there...maybe it's an addiction, a bad temper, impurity,
hateful remarks. God loves us but hates sin, and he has said that the
consequence for sin is separation from knowing him. But God provided a
way for us to be forgiven and know him. Jesus, the Son of God, God in
human form, took all of our sin on himself, suffered on a cross, and
willingly died in our place. The Bible says, "By this we know love,
that he laid down his life for us."3
God is offering us complete forgiveness because of Jesus' death for
us. This means forgiveness for all our sins.... Jesus paid for them
all. God, who created the universe, loves us and wants to be in a
relationship with us. "This is how God showed his love among us: he
sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through
him."4
Through Christ, God offers us real freedom from our sin and guilt. He
does not leave a person's failures on their shoulders, with a dim hope
of becoming a better person tomorrow. In Jesus Christ, God reached
toward humanity, providing a way for us to know him. "For God so loved
the world that he sent his one and only Son, that whoever believes in
him should not perish, but have eternal life."5
Actually God wants us to know him.
We were created by God to live in relationship with him. Jesus said,
"He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me
will never be thirsty...and whoever comes to me I will never drive
away."6 Jesus called people not only to follow his teachings, but to
follow him. He said, "I am the way, and the truth and the life."7 In
claiming to be the truth, Christ goes beyond mere prophets and
teachers who simply said they were speaking the truth.8
Jesus identified himself as equal to God, and even gave proof. Jesus
said that he would be crucified on a cross and that three days after
his death, he would come back to life. He didn't say he would
reincarnate someday into a future life. (Who would know if he actually
did it?) He said three days after being buried he would show himself
alive to those who saw his crucifixion. On that third day, Jesus' tomb
was found empty and many people testified that they saw him alive
again. He now offers eternal life to us.
I can say It's a two-way relationship.
Many religions focus on a person's spiritual efforts. With Jesus
Christ it's a two-way interaction between you and God. He welcomes us
to go to him. "The Lord is near to all who call upon him, to all who
call upon him in truth."9 You can communicate with God, who will
answer your prayer, give you greater peace and joy, provide direction,
show you his love, and transform your life. Jesus said, "I came that
they might have life, and have it more abundantly."10 It will not mean
that life will become perfect and free of problems. But it means that
in the midst of life, you can relate to God who is willing to be
involved in your life and faithful in his love.
Our hope is not in following laws or standards, but in knowing a
Savior who fully accepts us because of our faith in him and his
sacrifice for us. We don't earn our place in heaven by religious
efforts or good deeds. Heaven is a free gift to us, when we begin a
relationship with Jesus Christ.
Would you like to be totally forgiven and personally come to know
God's love for you? Then start beginning a relation with God.
Beginning a relationship with God.
It is as simple as sincerely asking God for his forgiveness of your
sin and inviting him to enter your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand
at the door [of your heart] and knock. If anyone hears my voice and
opens the door, I will come into him."11 Would u like to begin a
relationship with the God who created you, who deeply loves you? Then
just pray a small Prayer,"God, I ask you to forgive me and invite you
to enter my heart right now. Thank you Jesus for dying for my sins.
Thank you for coming into my life as you said you would."
The Bible tells us that "as many as received him, to them he gave the
right to become children of God."12 If you sincerely asked God to come
into your life, you have begun a personal relationship with him. It is
like you have just met God and he wants to help you grow to know him
better, to know his love for you, to guide you with wisdom in whatever
decisions confront you. The book called "John" in the Bible is a good
place to learn more about a relationship with God.
In the world's religions a person has a relationship with teachings,
ideas, paths, rituals. Through Jesus, a person can have a relationship
with the loving and powerful God. You can talk with him and he will
guide you in this life now. He doesn't just point you to a path, a
philosophy, or a religion. He welcomes you to know him, to experience
joy, and to have confidence in his love in the midst of life's
challenges. "See what love the Father has given us, that we should be
called children of God."

READ BIBLE WITH SPRIT OF PROPHESY WHICH THE ADVENTIST OFFER! YOU WILL
KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT GOD !

Start each day with thanks to God
for the night of rest:
Then put your day in God's good hands,
for He alone knows the best.

No one knows when life will end,
or what will come our way,
But we face the future full of hope when we put God first each day.


"HAVE A BLESSED SABBATH AND A HAPPY WEEK AHED "
With love from Shrikanth
B.G. Kent
2008-02-05 01:44:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by shrikanth
RELIGIONS
We will look into the major world faith systems...Hinduism, New Age,
Buddhism, Islam, and Christianity.* here I would like to share a brief
**snip
Post by shrikanth
New Age
New Age promotes the development of the person's own power or
divinity. When referring to God, a follower of New Age is not talking
about a transcendent, personal God who created the universe, but is
referring to a higher consciousness within themselves. A person in New
Age would see themselves as God, the cosmos, the universe. In fact,
everything that the person sees, hears, feels or imagines is to be
considered divine.
B - actually there is so much to the so-called New Age and by the way some
"New Agers" get rather annoyed at that term...since much of what they
learn is rather old and pre-christian. You can't paint all New agers by
what you hear about some. WE are very varied.
Post by shrikanth
The Earth is viewed as the source of all spirituality, and has its
own intelligence, emotions and deity. But superseding all is self.
Self is the originator, controller and God of all. There is no reality
outside of what the person determines.
B - top line in the paragraph is wrong. The Earth is viewed usually as a
being that is our school. Self is not God...God is beyond self or ego. NOt
all New Age beliefs are subjectivists either...so the last line of that
paragraph is wrong.
Post by shrikanth
New Age teaches a wide array of eastern mysticism and spiritual,
metaphysical and psychic techniques, such as breathing exercises,
chanting, drumming, meditating...to develop an altered consciousness
and one's own divinity.
Anything negative a person experiences (failures, sadness, anger,
selfishness, hurt) is considered an illusion. Believing themselves to
be completely sovereign over their life, nothing about their life is
wrong, negative or painful. Eventually a person develops spiritually
to the degree that there is no objective, external reality. A person,
becoming a god, creates their own reality.
B - er....kinda yes and kinda no. That is far too pat of answers to swipe
us all with.


Bren Wiccan and Christian.
Matthew Johnson
2008-02-05 01:44:13 UTC
Permalink
In article <tNtpj.6286$***@trnddc03>, shrikanth says...
[snip]
Post by shrikanth
Islam
Muslims believe there is the one almighty God, named Allah,
'Allah' is not a name per se, it _is_ the Arabic word for 'God'. Arabic
Christians use the same term throughout the Arabic translation of the Bible.

You _did_ know, I hope, that Arabic Christians exist?

[SNIP]
--
-----------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
B.G. Kent
2008-01-30 01:32:43 UTC
Permalink
B - can't point out chapter and verse as I am not a biblicist..but I do
believe there is a section in the Bible where Jesus supposedly says to his
followers to at least "try and get along" and those that are not against
me are for me...and love one another as yourself being the greatest rule.
I sort of believe that speaks for itself. Too many people fight over a
book that may or may not be Jesus's words...they have lost the whole point
of Christianity, I believe, which is to love one another as yourself.
There is no separation....this is an illusion. WE are ONE.

in my experience and opinion,
Bren
Post by Markus Klinger
Re: Too many Varying FAITHs in the WORLD! Who's Right?
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Faith & of Faith,
I am on a very serious QUEST for TRUTH!!!
I have a Very DEEP Probing Question for you... ALL!
Of Significance that requires extremely careful consideration and consequences to my own Christian Faith Too!!!
Loading...