John 3: 13 exegesis

[b***@allvantage.com]

Re: John 3: 13 exegesis
Has anyone got access to a good library of commentaries? I'd be interested
in a list of quotes on whether the latter part of this text should read
'from heaven' or 'in heaven'...
Thanks!

Hello,

First, here are a couple of popular translations of John 3:13:

-- King James
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down
from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

-- New International
John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came
from heaven--the Son of Man.

The main difference here is that addition "which is in heaven" in the
KJV. Some Bibles insert it, others do not. Thus there must be some
differences in the source documents being used.

And a quick glance at multiple Bibles, basically shows that the more
modern Bible translations omit it, but the older ones (like the KJV)
have it in.

I can't find much on why the differences, except in the interlineary,
The Emphatic Diaglott, it has this footnote in the latter part of Joh
3:13,

"VATICAN MANUSCRIPT.--13. he being in HEAVEN-- omit."

Thus not all the source documents that translators use, contained that
phrase.

If this helps any, here is a modern interlinear showing the word for
word translation from the Greek:

"And no one has ascended into the heaven if not the (one) out of the
heaven having descended, the Son of the man." (The Kingdom Interlineary
Translation of the Greek Scriptures)


Sincerely, James


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[suneejan]

I do believe that verse needs to taken with the other verses
surrounding it. Verse 11 gives a clue that Jesus has been to heaven
and earth to testify of things of God. No one I know of has done both
been to heaven and come baxck to tell people Godly things except Jesus.
Certainly people has ascended to heaven. Look in the old testament
about the story of Elijah taken up to heaven in a fiery chariot.
Sometimes there appears to be a contridiction but a person needs to ask
God for an explanation. Also there is a good website to study and ask
biblical questions www.studybibleforum.com.
Are you a Jehovah Witness? What church do you belong to?

Post by b***@allvantage.com

Re: John 3: 13 exegesis
Has anyone got access to a good library of commentaries? I'd be interested
in a list of quotes on whether the latter part of this text should read
'from heaven' or 'in heaven'...
Thanks!

Hello,

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by b***@allvantage.com

Re: John 3: 13 exegesis
Has anyone got access to a good library of commentaries? I'd be interested
in a list of quotes on whether the latter part of this text should read
'from heaven' or 'in heaven'...
Thanks!

Hello,

More than just a couple, clearly;)

Post by b***@allvantage.com
-- King James
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down
from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
-- New International
John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came
from heaven--the Son of Man.
The main difference here is that addition "which is in heaven" in the
KJV. Some Bibles insert it, others do not. Thus there must be some
differences in the source documents being used.

And why are you so sure that it is an _addition_ and that some _insert_ it?

Post by b***@allvantage.com
And a quick glance at multiple Bibles, basically shows that the more
modern Bible translations omit it, but the older ones (like the KJV)
have it in.

As does the NKJV.

Post by b***@allvantage.com
I can't find much on why the differences,

Then I am afraid you have simply not done your homework. For many of the modern
editions have footnotes that have at least _some_ explanation.

Post by b***@allvantage.com
except in the interlineary,
The Emphatic Diaglott, it has this footnote in the latter part of Joh
3:13,
"VATICAN MANUSCRIPT.--13. he being in HEAVEN-- omit."
Thus not all the source documents that translators use, contained that
phrase.
If this helps any, here is a modern interlinear showing the word for

No, that does not help. What would have helped would have been to do a keyword
search in this newsgroup -- to find that the question has been discussed
thoroughly before. The answer is, as you _started_ to describe, that the
majority of Greek manuscripts have the words "O WN IN TOIS OURANOIS" (he being
in heaven), but _certain_ older manuscripts do not. And those older manuscripts
are the manuscripts that most modern scholars believe are closer to the
original.

Now it is a _long_ story _why_ most modern scholars believe these manuscripts
are closer to the original. For that, one should really turn to an introductory
text on New Testament Textual Criticism.

However, there is a source on the Web that is almost as good, Bruce Waltzmann's
"Encyclopedia of Textual Criticism" at:

http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn/

But that is not easy reading either.

[B.G. Kent]

Post by suneejan
I do believe that verse needs to taken with the other verses
surrounding it. Verse 11 gives a clue that Jesus has been to heaven
and earth to testify of things of God. No one I know of has done both
been to heaven and come baxck to tell people Godly things except Jesus.
Certainly people has ascended to heaven. Look in the old testament
about the story of Elijah taken up to heaven in a fiery chariot.

B - that also could be a story about an early alien abduction....we don't
really know do we?

Bren

[suneejan]

If it is written in the Holy Bible as this is (John 3:120 - 13), then
it is true. If a person is born of the Spirit then the scriptures are
understandable because they talk of spiritual things.

Post by B.G. Kent

Post by suneejan
I do believe that verse needs to taken with the other verses
surrounding it. Verse 11 gives a clue that Jesus has been to heaven
and earth to testify of things of God. No one I know of has done both
been to heaven and come baxck to tell people Godly things except Jesus.
Certainly people has ascended to heaven. Look in the old testament
about the story of Elijah taken up to heaven in a fiery chariot.

B - that also could be a story about an early alien abduction....we don't
really know do we?
Bren

[B.G. Kent]

Post by suneejan
If it is written in the Holy Bible as this is (John 3:120 - 13), then
it is true. If a person is born of the Spirit then the scriptures are
understandable because they talk of spiritual things.

B - Please prove.

thanks...I await your proof.

It reminds me of the story of the Emperors Clothes sort of..."oh only
those of extreme intelligence and refinement can see the Emperors
clothes"......

Blessings
Bren