Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday?

[Antares 531]

The Jewish seventh day Sabbath has always been from sundown to
sundown, the seventh day. The Christian churches, for the most part,
call Sunday from midnight to midnight Sabbath.

I have debated this many times and have searched for scriptural
justification for this change, but have not been able to find anything
conclusive.

It seems the early Christians in Rome were the first to make this
change, and their motive was to escape persecution as Jews. They
reasoned that if their worship day was not on the Jewish Sabbath, they
might escape being thought of as Jews and persecuted as Jews.

But, where is the scriptural authorization for this Sabbath day
change? Can anyone help me with this?

[l***@hotmail.com]

Post by Antares 531
The Jewish seventh day Sabbath has always been from sundown to
sundown, the seventh day. The Christian churches, for the most part,
call Sunday from midnight to midnight Sabbath.
I have debated this many times and have searched for scriptural
justification for this change, but have not been able to find anything
conclusive.
It seems the early Christians in Rome were the first to make this
change, and their motive was to escape persecution as Jews. They
reasoned that if their worship day was not on the Jewish Sabbath, they
might escape being thought of as Jews and persecuted as Jews.

Scriptural record and historical record follows that the Sabbath in
the new dispensation of the indwelling Spirit, is everyday. In Rev
1:10 John choose to use an adjective, not a noun when noting the
"Lord's day."

The church has followed the tradition that believers assemble for
corporate worship on the day of resurrection, or the day after the
Jewish sabbath, i.e. Sunday. Heb 10:25 and elsewhere teaches that
such gatherings are the normal, healthy Christian's desire and need.

Christ fulfilled the Law (which was given to Israel, not to the
Church) and is therefore not directly applicable today. The principles
that find their source in God, however, still apply. To be a believer
is to be anointed by the Spirit and baptised into the body of Christ.
We are meant to be "one even as We are one" as Christ speaks to the
Father in Jn 17. It is our eternal destiny to reflect the
unity/diversity of the Godhead here and in eternity.

So, it really doesn't matter sabbath, saturday or sunday. It's all
about having the spiritual desire to be with others who also wish to
glorify God.

[d***@aol.com]

Post by Antares 531
The Jewish seventh day Sabbath has always been from sundown to
sundown, the seventh day. The Christian churches, for the most part,
call Sunday from midnight to midnight Sabbath.
I have debated this many times and have searched for scriptural
justification for this change, but have not been able to find anything
conclusive.
It seems the early Christians in Rome were the first to make this
change, and their motive was to escape persecution as Jews. They
reasoned that if their worship day was not on the Jewish Sabbath, they
might escape being thought of as Jews and persecuted as Jews.
But, where is the scriptural authorization for this Sabbath day
change? Can anyone help me with this?

try Acts 20:7

Actually most Christian churches don't consider Sunday "the Sabbath"
at all. They meet on the first day of the week to celebrate the risen
Christ, sort of a weekly Easter. I know some churches try to play with
this because they are trying to match the literal commandment
regarding the Sabbath with when they meet, and Adventists still meet
on Saturday. I can't imagine God casting anyone into the pit of fire
because they honored the wrong day, can you?

Daryl

[h***@geneva.rutgers.edu]

Antares 531 <***@swbell.net> and
"***@aol.com" <***@aol.com> have been discussing Sunday.

There are, of course, several different approaches among Christians.

Post by d***@aol.com
Actually most Christian churches don't consider Sunday "the Sabbath"
at all. They meet on the first day of the week to celebrate the risen
Christ, sort of a weekly Easter.

I'm not sure I'd say "most." There is a strong tradition of considering
Sunday a Christian Sabbath.

I actually agree with the approach quoted. The Sabbath command has not
been rescinded. But it was part of the covenant with the Jewish
people, which neither Jews nor the early Church (see Acts 15 and Col
2:16) considered binding on Gentile Christians. Thus I see worship for
Christians as free, not an obedience to the Law. But as the Sermon on
the Mount makes clear (on other issues), free obedience doesn't mean
less rigorous expectations than following the Law.

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by h***@geneva.rutgers.edu
There are, of course, several different approaches among Christians.

Post by d***@aol.com
Actually most Christian churches don't consider Sunday "the Sabbath"
at all. They meet on the first day of the week to celebrate the risen
Christ, sort of a weekly Easter.

I'm not sure I'd say "most." There is a strong tradition of considering
Sunday a Christian Sabbath.

But it is so 'strong' only among Protestants. And when you add up the (best
estimate) numbers, Protestants are a minority.

Among non-Protestants, the word for 'Saturday' often IS derived from 'Sabbath',
and the word for Friday almost as often from "Preparation (Day for the
Sabbath)". Such is the case in Greek and Russian.

Under such circumstances, it is hard to treat Sunday as "a Christian Sabbath".

But there is a yet better reason to treat Sunday as different from and better
than another Sabbath: Sunday, the Day of Resurrection IS the new festival that
the typology of the Sabbath Rest foreshadowed. That is why it is often called
not the 1st day of the week, but the Eighth day, the image of the new age the
Resurrection opens up to us.

[l***@hotmail.com]

On Nov 25, 9:14=A0pm, Matthew Johnson <***@newsguy.org>
wrote:

SNIP

Among non-Protestants, the word for 'Saturday' often IS derived from 'Sab=

bath',
Actually the word comes from, "Saturn's Day." It is a pagan festival
which was synthesized, cleaned up, made to look respectable by the
Latin church.

and the word for Friday almost as often from "Preparation (Day for the
Sabbath)". Such is the case in Greek and Russian.

Actually, the day of preparation was Thursday at sun down. We mustn't
overlook the Jewish paradigm in all of this.

Under such circumstances, it is hard to treat Sunday as "a Christian Sabb=

ath".

But there is a yet better reason to treat Sunday as different from and be=

tter

than another Sabbath: Sunday, the Day of Resurrection IS the new festival=

that

the typology of the Sabbath Rest foreshadowed. That is why it is often ca=

lled

not the 1st day of the week, but the Eighth day, the image of the new age=

the

Resurrection opens up to us.

Yet pragmatically speaking, it is merely an assigned day in which all
saints gather to corporately share and fellowship in the individuals
worship of the previous 6 days. Worship isn't something one
accomplishes on one day of the week for an hour in the morning. It is
the life all Christians are called to "rest" in perpetually. Worship
on Sunday is merely the climax of the adoration which has been
building up throughout the week.

At this point, there is no greater call to a comprehensive worship
than that of the Puritan's. That was their goal. They sought to
magnify the majesty which for all practical purposes, the Church has
rarely revealed in. A few here and there but over all lost to the
main. And all of this is directly attributable to the failure of the
Church to teach the divine achievement in and through the death of
Christ for the believer. For it is most evident that this refers to a
positional rather than an experimental reality. Yet that said, how
limitless is the value to the believer of the fact that the judgment
is accomplished and the victory over sin IS possible! There need be
no wonder if this fact is not generally understood and recognized.
Even the death of Christ as the righteous basis for forgiveness and
justification is slighted and misunderstood by the greater mass of
people. It is probable that where a 100 have actually come to
comprehend their dependence upon Christ's death for their salvation,
there is no_more_than one that apprehends his dependence upon Christ's
death for his sanctification as well.

Many within the Church will have to give an answer for why they did
not feed the sheep!

---

[I think his comment about Saturday referred to the word in various
languages, not just English. --clh]

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Matthew Johnson
SNIP

Among non-Protestants, the word for 'Saturday' often IS derived from 'Sab=

bath',
Actually the word comes from, "Saturn's Day." It is a pagan festival
which was synthesized, cleaned up, made to look respectable by the
Latin church.

You didn't read what he said.

Subotta has nothing to do with Saturn, but is derived from Sabbath.

Post by Matthew Johnson

and the word for Friday almost as often from "Preparation (Day for the
Sabbath)". Such is the case in Greek and Russian.

Actually, the day of preparation was Thursday at sun down. We mustn't
overlook the Jewish paradigm in all of this.

You what?

Methinks you are confusing Judaism and Islam.

[Antares 531]

Post by d***@aol.com

Post by Antares 531
The Jewish seventh day Sabbath has always been from sundown to
sundown, the seventh day. The Christian churches, for the most part,
call Sunday from midnight to midnight Sabbath.
I have debated this many times and have searched for scriptural
justification for this change, but have not been able to find anything
conclusive.
It seems the early Christians in Rome were the first to make this
change, and their motive was to escape persecution as Jews. They
reasoned that if their worship day was not on the Jewish Sabbath, they
might escape being thought of as Jews and persecuted as Jews.
But, where is the scriptural authorization for this Sabbath day
change? Can anyone help me with this?

try Acts 20:7
Actually most Christian churches don't consider Sunday "the Sabbath"
at all. They meet on the first day of the week to celebrate the risen
Christ, sort of a weekly Easter. I know some churches try to play with
this because they are trying to match the literal commandment
regarding the Sabbath with when they meet, and Adventists still meet
on Saturday. I can't imagine God casting anyone into the pit of fire
because they honored the wrong day, can you?
Daryl

Thanks, Daryl, I have looked at this reference, but I am still not
settled in these matters. It is passages such as the following that
bother me. Are we interested in our rewards? It isn't a matter of
being dumped into the pit of fire. It is a matter of our rewards.

Has the Sabbath commandment been rescinded? Or, are we setting our
selves up for a lower level in the Kingdom of Heaven by ignoring this
commandment?

There will be a social gradient in Heaven. Some will be least and some
will be great. Where should we try to fit into this gradient?


Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the
Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one
jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is
fulfilled.

19Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and
teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but
whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom
of heaven.

20For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the
righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter
the kingdom of heaven.

[Denis Giron]

Post by Antares 531
The Christian churches, for the most part,
call Sunday from midnight to midnight Sabbath.

As others have noted, this is more of a Protestant practice, and,
perhaps, specifically English speaking Protestants (i.e. Protestants
who do not speak languages which have the same word for "Sabbath" and
"Saturday").

Post by Antares 531
It seems the early Christians in Rome were the first to make
this change, and their motive was to escape persecution as
Jews.

No, the Church of the first century was the first to make this change.
You can see mention of Kyriake in Revelation 1:10, and we know what
Kyriake means from roughly contemporary texts, like the Didache. Also
take note of texts which only came a short while later, like the
Epistle of Barnabas or St. Ignatius' Letter to the Magnesians, which
speak of "the eighth day". The fact that Kyriake appears in the Bible,
and the fact that the early Church gathered on the First Day to break
bread (Acts 20:7), shows how old the practice is.

Regarding Kyriake, there is a reason (alluded to by Matthew Johnson
already) for why in several languages the word for "Saturday" is
"Sabbath" and the word for "Sunday" is roughly "of the Lord" (i.e. the
Lord's Day). Following a roughly similar grammatical structure,
Kyriake became "Dominica" in Ecclesiastical Latin, and became
"Domingo" in Spanish. Denying that the Greek word Kyriake refers to
Sunday is as ridiculous as denying that the Spanish word Domingo
refers to Sunday in Spanish. The appearance of Kyriake in the Bible
shows that the practice of Sunday worship dates to before the closing
of the Biblical canon!

Post by Antares 531
But, where is the scriptural authorization for this Sabbath day
change? Can anyone help me with this?

Well, Acts 20:7 and Revelation 1:10 have already been cited. But I
liked to link John 5:18 with Matthew 18:18 (or Matthew 16:19) and Acts
15. In John 5:18, it clearly states that Christ Himself "loosed" the
Sabbath (eluen ton sabbaton). He had the authority to do so, and He
passed the authority to bind and loose to the Bishops of His Church.
Now, when you get to Acts 15, you see Bishops of the Church deciding
what aspects of the Mosaic Law would be incumbent on gentile
Christians, and once notices that the Sabbath is not listed therein.
And if others want to disagree with this, oh well. No believer should
allow men to judge him about the Sabbath (Colossians 2:16).