Discussion:
Quit trying to make gays straight
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shegeek72
2009-08-13 02:51:27 UTC
Permalink
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_13017548

Futile therapy
Quit trying to make gays straight

Tribune Editorial
Updated: 08/07/2009 05:54:57 PM MDT

There has long been a theory, supported by some conservative religions
and religious groups, that people who are sexually attracted to
members of their own gender are mentally abnormal and can be "fixed,"
in the same way that mental illnesses can be treated with drugs or
therapy. But homosexuality is not an illness.

That reality was underscored Wednesday when the American Psychological
Association reported the results of a comprehensive study pointing up
the failure of efforts to turn gay people straight. The group
representing 150,000 professional mental health therapists
recommended, based on 83 studies over nearly 50 years, that its
members give up counseling patients that they can, if they try hard
enough, change their sexual orientation.

The treatments, called reparative therapy, simply don't work. That's
because the sexual orientation of gays and lesbians does not
constitute mental illness. They are as normal as left-handed people or
people with detached earlobes.

Humans are not clones; differences of all kinds are part of the human
condition and most are accepted as normal, though dissimilar from the
majority of the population. Homosexuality, however, isn't as well-
tolerated by the heterosexual community as lefties are among the right-
handed. That intolerance is often supported by references to scripture
or religious doctrine, just as mistreatment of Jews and blacks was,
for centuries, said to be God's will.

But that bias shouldn't force gays to try to change who they are. The
APA report is just the latest scientific evidence that trying to
change sexual orientation is futile, and worse, can cause lifelong
unhappiness or depression, and sometimes leads to suicide.

But the APA declaration that it does not support reparative therapy is
only part of the group's recommendation. It advises its members to
urge their gay patients who are trying to reconcile their
homosexuality with a religion that abhors it to adopt celibacy or
switch religions.

But, though that advice sounds practical and may prevent years of
frustrating and useless therapy, isn't it akin to telling a woman who
is being sexually harassed to simply change jobs or work stations?

Gays and lesbians aren't the ones who need to change. Those who see
homosexuality as immoral, who want to segregate gays and lesbians and
refuse them legal rights and privileges that heterosexuals enjoy,
should take a long look in the mirror to see where some reparative
therapy might actually do some good.

Tara's Transgender Resources
http://tarasresources.net

Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.mccchurch.org/
news
2009-08-18 01:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Brava Tara!

I believe we have a diversity of types of people in this world not only
because God seeks to create diversity but because diversity teaches us all
to accept differences....even if it takes seemingly forever. For some it
may not "look pretty" or fit in with their constructs of how it's supposed
to be but deal with it...this too shall pass (and by this I mean
intolerance and fear of differences). One way to get over fear and disgust
of differences? makes friends outside your normal circle...get to know
people of all kinds....work past your own limitations.


Blessings

Bren
Post by shegeek72
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_13017548
Futile therapy
Quit trying to make gays straight
a***@joe.net
2009-08-19 02:11:02 UTC
Permalink
Diversity is a good thing. Sin is not. Nor is confusing the two. The
Bible spells out the difference pretty clearly, which to me would seem one
of the more compelling reasons not to reject it.


Joe
Post by news
Brava Tara!
I believe we have a diversity of types of people in this world not only
because God seeks to create diversity but because diversity teaches us all
to accept differences....even if it takes seemingly forever. For some it
may not "look pretty" or fit in with their constructs of how it's supposed
to be but deal with it...this too shall pass (and by this I mean
intolerance and fear of differences). One way to get over fear and disgust
of differences? makes friends outside your normal circle...get to know
people of all kinds....work past your own limitations.
Blessings
Bren
Post by shegeek72
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_13017548
Futile therapy
Quit trying to make gays straight
news
2009-08-20 01:58:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@joe.net
Diversity is a good thing. Sin is not. Nor is confusing the two. The
Bible spells out the difference pretty clearly, which to me would seem one
of the more compelling reasons not to reject it.
Joe
B - Jesus never said one thing against gays in the Bible.

Bren
a***@joe.net
2009-08-21 01:46:49 UTC
Permalink
You're right Bren. Jesus never said anything against gays in Scripture. He
did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.

He said plenty about sin, however, including, by reference to the Mosaic
Law, sexual sin. Here is one example:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have
not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth,
until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least
stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until
everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these
commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in
the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands
will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that
unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the
teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 5:17-20 (NIV)

Now, you may well point out that the Mosaic Law is not, at least in its
entirety, binding on Christians today. However, at least certain portions
of it are, and sexual immorality (of any kind, gay or straight) is among
them:

"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for
the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them,
telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual
immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For
Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read
in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

Acts 15:19-21 (NIV)

The sad reality is that ALL of us, whether gay, straight or otherwise, have
sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:3). Thus we all stand in
need of His mercy and forgiveness. Gay people are no different than any of
the rest of us in this regard. We all have sinned, and we all need a
Savior.

The good news is that He offers exactly that - His mercy and forgiveness -
to all who repent and believe. He paid the highest possible price, Himself,
to enable this to be so. We can't hide our sins from God, but we can
confess them to Him and receive His forgiveness and cleansing (1 John 1:9).


Joe
Post by news
Post by a***@joe.net
Diversity is a good thing. Sin is not. Nor is confusing the two. The
Bible spells out the difference pretty clearly, which to me would seem one
of the more compelling reasons not to reject it.
Joe
B - Jesus never said one thing against gays in the Bible.
Bren
l***@hotmail.com
2009-08-31 04:37:08 UTC
Permalink
You're right Bren. =A0Jesus never said anything against gays in Scripture=
. =A0

He didn't say anything about watching porno on your computer either.
So what? An argument from silence is the weakest of all. Besides, if
you had even a cursory investigation of the Hebrew culture at the time
of Christ, you would know that homosexuality in Israel was non-
existent.

As I wrote and posted once before, but never saw the light of day,
lesbianism, in all my studies, is all but non-existent in Roman
culture. I have read other scholars who give passing reference to less
than a half dozen mentions of that deviant lifestyle in all their
studies as well. Paul mentions it in Rom 1 not as a historical fact,
but as an eschatological tell as the wrath of God revealed in His
abandonment of that society which allows such.
He did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.
Jn 3:18?
He said plenty about sin, however, including, by reference to the Mosaic
Law, sexual sin. =A0Here is one example: =A0 =A0 =A0Matthew 5:17-20 (NIV)
Now, you may well point out that the Mosaic Law is not, at least in its
entirety, binding on Christians today.
It never was binding on anyone outside of Judaism let alone
Christianity except as attempted by the Judaizers. Paul makes
this distinction in Rom 1 & 2.
=A0However, at least certain portions
of it are, and sexual immorality (of any kind, gay or straight) is among
them: =A0 =A0 =A0Acts 15:19-21 (NIV)
When one uses Acts to support a thesis, he must recognize the nature
of the Church and its record in Acts is one of transitioning out of
Judaism into a separate entity.
The sad reality is that ALL of us, whether gay, straight or otherwise, ha=
ve
sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:3). =A0
Two wrongs do not make a right. The adulterous woman was clearly
rebuffed when commanded to "go and sin no more." If your inclination
is same sex, that is not a sin. The sin comes when you practice it
and especially when you wink at it, even, as Rom 1:32 points out,
advocate it seeking its legitimacy.
Thus we all stand in
need of His mercy and forgiveness. =A0Gay people are no different than an=
y of
the rest of us in this regard. =A0We all have sinned, and we all need a
Savior.
The problem stems from the fact, as the Pauline dynamic in Rom 1
attests, that homosexuality points to an abandonment of God. "Gave
them over."
The good news is that He offers exactly that - His mercy and forgiveness =
-
to all who repent and believe. =A0He paid the highest possible price, Him=
self,
to enable this to be so. =A0We can't hide our sins from God, but we can
confess them to Him and receive His forgiveness and cleansing (1 John 1:9=
).
Joe
This is true Joe, but most want their cake and eat it to. They do not
want Biblical Christianity and certainly not historic Christianity.
THey
want revised "christianity."

--33B6A6AE9A5.1251688297/Main.local--
shegeek72
2009-09-01 02:11:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
He didn't say anything about watching porno on your computer
either.
Post by l***@hotmail.com
So what? An argument from silence is the weakest of all. Besides, if
you had even a cursory investigation of the Hebrew culture at the time
of Christ, you would know that homosexuality in Israel was non-
existent.
Baloney. Gays and transgenders have existed since the beginning of
humanity. It may have been repressed/underground, but it existed.

Tara's Transgender Resources
http://tarasresources.net

Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.mccchurch.org/
Jo Jo Gunn
2009-09-30 01:40:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Post by l***@hotmail.com
He didn't say anything about watching porno on your computer
either.
Post by l***@hotmail.com
So what? An argument from silence is the weakest of all. Besides, if
you had even a cursory investigation of the Hebrew culture at the time
of Christ, you would know that homosexuality in Israel was non-
existent.
It wasn't non-existent....just hidden....just like the gays who probably
surround your every day doings.
DKleinecke
2009-09-30 23:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jo Jo Gunn
If you had even a cursory investigation of the Hebrew culture at the tim=
e
Post by Jo Jo Gunn
of Christ, you would know that homosexuality in Israel was non-
existent.
It wasn't non-existent....just hidden....just like the gays who probably
surround your every day doings.
To some people there is homosexuality and there is Homosexuality. So
long as homosexuality remains discreetly in the closet and is never
mentioned it is considered to not exist (like female homosexuality in
the Old Testament). But when the closet opens and Homosexuality
emerges they rise up in wrath.

This is a class of people who simply cannot love. I assume they cannot
even love themselves. They are made uncomfortable by Christianity
because Christianity is based on the idea of universal love.

But we love them anyway.

So there.
l***@hotmail.com
2009-09-30 23:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jo Jo Gunn
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Post by l***@hotmail.com
He didn't say anything about watching porno on your computer
either.
Post by l***@hotmail.com
So what? An argument from silence is the weakest of all. Besides, if
you had even a cursory investigation of the Hebrew culture at the time
of Christ, you would know that homosexuality in Israel was non-
existent.
It wasn't non-existent....just hidden....just like the gays who probably
surround your every day doings.
Okay. Homework assignment. In all the thousands of manuscripts we
have today from the time of the LXX up to the end of the 2 AD, how
many references are there to lesbianism? How many references are
there to homosexuality in the DSS?

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