Post by B.G. KentSo what is it? are we supposed to come to God through faith alone? or
through force by submitting to what some others think?
No human "force" is involved. Also, you will feel no Divine force
compelling your to hold your hand over the flame. It is a conscious
choice on your part.
Post by B.G. KentWho are you
(meaning the collective you) to say whether someone has enough faith or
the right faith then?
Haven't you been listening to what everyone has been saying to you?
Is it that difficult for you to accept? Simply put, you argree with
what we've been saying -that a supreme authoritative is primary.
There can't be a collective, can't be many, can't be even two. "There
can be only one," to quote an old movie line. Right is determined on
what God has revealed to us in His Word, the bible.
Post by B.G. KentAre you higher than them? If you too are in the
parade....how can you see the parade as a separate from you...whole?
Again, your presupposition is wrong. No one is judging. However, if
the biblical guidelines are not followed or accepted, then the
discernment is that one has not come to true saving faith.
You purchase something at the store and the teller tells you, "That'll
be five dollars." You don't have to jump through hoops to interpret
that sentence. And so it is with the Gospel call. It is elemental.
It is simple (but not simplistic). It's not that hard and yet there
is something within everyone that thinks it foolish and naturally
reject that calling unless God first capacitates acceptance. All are
dead in their sin/alienation from God. Dead men can do nothing.
Likewise, it requires God to regenerate us before we are recapacitated
to accept Him and His offer of salvation. It is a work of God but
consciously it is a choice of the individual.
Post by B.G. KentIf Faith is a genuine God infused feeling..then one should be able to come
through it on their own. Telling someone that they must have faith or they
could die in hell....is not faith then...it is fear.
so which is it?
Basically your question is that which has engaged the attention of the
greatest minds of every age. It is perplexing because it is
paradoxical. If God has foreordained whatsoever comes to pass, who
will be effectually called and who will not, the whole series of
events of everyone and everything, then the common conclusion is that
human liberty has been taken away. Men become but passive instruments
in the hand of their Creator. Men can do nothing but what they are
secretly and irresistibly influenced to do. Men are not responsible
for their actions and God is the ultimately the author of sin.
To this the objection is raised that the divine decree is ex-trinsic
to the human mind. It exerts no force or influence upon our faculties
and that while it insures the fruition of the plan, it leaves them to
be accomplished in the existence of our liberty.
Back and forth the arguments are made. However, much of the context
is predicated upon poor definition of terms. For instance, liberty
does not consist in the power of acting or not action but rather in
the ability to act from choice. Choice is determined by something in
the "mind" whether influenced externally or not. The provocation is
not the issue. The choice makes the action free and therefore the
individual accountable. But that which ties or connects the
foreordination of God and human liberty, though real, it remains
invisible and God has chosen not reveal or describe the dynamic to
men. Our responsibility lies in only accepting that revelation which
HE has given.
Faith is always based upon some foundation of knowledge. Faith in
faith is an absurdity. It doesn't exist. You go to work everyday
based upon the knowledge that you will get paid for that labor at the
end of the week which in turn you will be able to take that green
piece of paper and purchase food and pay the rent and buy gas for your
car etc. The entire system is faith based. Everyone lives a "faith"
existence. But it is no different when we come to salvation. The
Christian message is exclussively different than all other methods of
salvation for the Gospel message starts off with the bill already
being remitted. God has paid the price of our freedom. All we have
to do is cash the check -so to speak. We have to accept His offer as
having true substance. We have to accept His offer in but one
effectual way -by faith. And in do so, we turn our backs on the
world's system of living. It is complete devotion to but One Truth.
Of course, we fail at many points in trying to live out this devotion,
but the intital act of sitting down and resting in what has been
accomplished for us by Jesus Christ is a once and for all act. It is
not repeated judicially. For at that moment where we make the choice,
God declares us righteous by imputing the righteousness of Christ to
our account. Thereafter? We must existentially live a life of faith,
drawing upon that account by reliance upon the Spirit to enlighten and
empower us to do the work of God. Simple yes but never simplistic.
Easy? Yes but never without great striving.
One way.
One faith.
One Lord.