Discussion:
Christians
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Re Adit
2009-03-02 01:25:19 UTC
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Hi,

"I am The Truth", says Jesus.

Since no truth contradicts another truth, how do you and all your
fellow Protestants regard each other as Christians in spite of some
contradictory beliefs among you?

And how do you call Christians people who will that in religion
nationality comes first thereby contradicting The Bible which says:
"There is neither Jew nor Greek"?


And isn't The Bride of Jesus Christ, The Church, as the mustard tree
which is greater than all herbs (Matthew 13:32)? So you cannot say the
truth by saying that you haven't been able to see It.


Don't you know who is the father of lies and what shall happen to you
if you sooner or later (you never know when) die in a lie?


In The Truth,
Re
h***@geneva.rutgers.edu
2009-03-02 01:25:19 UTC
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Post by Re Adit
Since no truth contradicts another truth, how do you and all your
fellow Protestants regard each other as Christians in spite of some
contradictory beliefs among you?
Because Jesus is also clear that none of us is perfect, nor do any of
us claim that we fully understand God. I consider someone as a
Christian who accepts Christ as his savior. Typically I would also
expect them to hold common beliefs such as the Apostles' Creed. But
it's possible to be wrong about things and still be a Christian. Our
unity is in the fact that we are all part of the Body of Christ, not
the fact that we all subscribe to a single creed (although in fact
Protestants do in general agree on many common beliefs).

I choose the Apostles' Creed because it doesn't have the more specific
doctrines that are present in the Nicene Creed. I support the Nicene
Creed, and so do all the major branches of Protestant Christianity.
But there are peope who don't quite agree with the Nicene formulation
of the Trinity but still held Christ as Lord and savior. I consider
them heterodox Christians as opposed to non-Christians.
Post by Re Adit
And how do you call Christians people who will that in religion
"There is neither Jew nor Greek"?
Not sure quite what this refers to. As far as I know, all Christians
agree that Christians from all nations are brothers and sisters.
DKleinecke
2009-03-03 03:58:46 UTC
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Post by h***@geneva.rutgers.edu
I consider someone as a
Christian who accepts Christ as his savior.
I choose the Apostles' Creed because it doesn't have the more specific
doctrines that are present in the Nicene Creed. I support the Nicene
Creed, and so do all the major branches of Protestant Christianity.
But there are peope who don't quite agree with the Nicene formulation
of the Trinity but still held Christ as Lord and savior. I consider
them heterodox Christians as opposed to non-Christians.
How far does your tolerance go? Do you accept Unitarians and/or
Universalists as Christians? Is your coy "don't quite agree with the
Nicene formulation of the Trinity" a reference to Unitarians?

Those of us who have drifted away from the mainstream don't mind being
called "heterodox" but we don't really think that anybody has the
power to declare us "non-Christians".

What is your judgment of my position? I don't hold "Christ as Lord and
savior". I don't hold Jesus as a anything other than an ordinary man
and I don't consider the events of two thousand years ago in Palestine
as of more than historical interest. What matters to me is the
continuous ongoing activity of the Holy Spirit and the everlasting
presence of God.

But I am perfectly willing to let other people come to God in their
own way and on their own terms. As I see it there is no Truth other
than the Truth of God and all our little human efforts to acknowledge
God are more likely than not to be wrong. My efforts just as much
anyone else's.

---

[I'm not sure I'm required to judge whether everyone is a Christian or
not.

While I was in college I went to a Friends meeting for a while. (I was
at Haverford College, which is Quaker. At least in the last 1960s it
was the traditional East-coast Friends, not the more explicitly
Christian and even evangelical Friends that you find in some parts of
the country.) I ran into folks that I think are similar to you there.
Some of them were reluctant to call themselves Christian, because they
thought you had to agree to a detailed creed. But I thought they were.
Others probably weren't. I don't mind people who are probably best
thought of as generic theists respecting Jesus and trying to follow
his example. While I ended up going to a Presbyterian church, I'm
still not uncomfortable at the thought of worshipping with Friends
(though I haven't done so for a while).

At any rate, the original question I was responding to was about
Protestant Christianity. While the Friends have some historical
connection with Protestantism, I wouldn't regard them as Protestant
(at least not the ones I was with). I suspect you aren't either.

Unitarianism can be heterodox Christianity. Universalism was
originally part of mainstream Christianity, and I think some modern
Protestants believe in universalism but are still pretty mainstream.
However as far as I can tell the current U. U. Church isn't classical
unitarianism, although it started out that way. It's become a generic
religion that isn't necessarily explicitly Christian. Many U. U.
congregations have a mix of Christians, pagans, and some that are
probably what I'd call generic theists.

--clh]
DKleinecke
2009-03-05 03:14:44 UTC
Permalink
I'm not sure I'm required to judge whether everyone [sic - for anyone?] i=
s a Christian or
not.
I suppose there are people who think you are so required -- but not
me. All I ask is that you don't volunteer to.
However as far as I can tell the current U. U. Church isn't classical
unitarianism, although it started out that way. It's become a generic
religion that isn't necessarily explicitly Christian. Many U. U.
congregations have a mix of Christians, pagans, and some that are
probably what I'd call generic theists.
The U-U's specifically have no required beliefs. Oddly enough I'm not
one even though I am both a Universalist and a Unitarian. You can
believe anything or nothing. I think that precludes the U-U's from
being a Christian religion - but it does not preclude an individual U-
U from being a Christian.

So it appears that you cannot judge a person's Christianity on the
basis of what denomination they profess.

I like that conclusion. It allows me to describe somebody's
Christianity as dubious, even though they are a faithful church-goer.
For example, I have my doubts about C. S. Lewis' Christianity. I
think he liked that lion god beyond the limits of allegory.

I imagine that my conclusion goes further than that. Take some
unquestionably non-Christian religion like Scientology. I don't see
why one cannot be simultaneously a Christian and a Scientologist.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply to my hastily written rant.
Bren
2009-03-06 03:28:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@geneva.rutgers.edu
Not sure quite what this refers to. As far as I know, all Christians
agree that Christians from all nations are brothers and sisters.
I totally agree. I do however believe that all who treat others as
themselves, who are kind to one another, who co-create with the
Creator and sees that we are all ONE...no matter what other faith they
call themselves..they are Christian. This is not to insult those who
are not Christian by giving them a label they may not want but that
actions themselves..for me..is what makes a true Christian not what a
"club" says.

I.M.O
Bren
Bren
2009-03-06 03:28:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Re Adit
Hi,
"I am The Truth", says Jesus.
Since no truth contradicts another truth, how do you and all your
fellow Protestants regard each other as Christians in spite of some
contradictory beliefs among you?
B - by knowing that we are fallible human beings that not one of us
has all the answers and that by the content of their hearts and how
they live their lives...that is what makes a Christian...not rhetoric
and literalism.

In my opinion,
Bren

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