Paul
2006-11-08 01:21:51 UTC
Quick (maybe!) question for the Calvinists on the group:
Recently I was reading a textbook on Christian history, and in one spot it
made a comment that John Calvin believed the Son, second Person of the
Trinity, was sitting on His throne in Heaven while Jesus was on the earth.
I'd never read or heard anything like this regarding Calvin (or Calvinism
since his time). Does it ring any bells? Is it even a remotely correct
statement of Calvin's beliefs? If not, any ideas where it might have come
from?
I'm inclined to be skeptical of the textbook's statement, but was curious
enough to ask for any clarifications you may have.
In Christ,
Paul
----
[This sounds like a mistake, or a description that is so misleading as
to be in effect a mistake. Calvin wouldn't, of course, consider the
Logos as literally located in a place called heaven. The Logos is
omnipresent. If by Jesus you mean specifically the human nature of
Christ, then of course like any other human body, his was present in
only one place at a time.
The problem, however, is that the second Person of the Trinity and
Jesus are *one person*, a doctrine that Calvin accepted just as much
as anyone. So as long as the statement is contrasting the two natures,
then I guess it's OK, but the way it's worded it certainly suggests a
more complete separation than most of us would be happy with.
Calvin intended to present standard Christology, so I wouldn't expect
a major difference with anyone else on this question. I get the
impression that Luther was trying for something more sophisticated than
Calvin in Christology, but I'm not competent to describe it.
There was, however, a famous disagreement between Luther and Calvin
about the mode in which Christ is present in communion. Calvin
believed that Christ's body, like other human bodies, is only in one
place. Even after his death and resurrection. (After his resurrection
his body is presumably "in heaven", as long as you don't take that too
literally.) Thus his body can't be everywhere at once. While Calvin
believed that we really commune with Jesus' body, he believed that our
connection with it is mediated by the Holy Spirit.
Luther believed in a somewhat more literal presence. However the
difference can be exaggerated. The Book of Concord denies that Christ
is locally present everywhere, so the mode of presence they have in
mind is not quite that in which our physical bodies are present.
Indeed the Solid Declaration quotes Luther in a description that seems
tolerably consistent with Reformed thought, although not quite the way
Calvin would have put it.
--clh]
Recently I was reading a textbook on Christian history, and in one spot it
made a comment that John Calvin believed the Son, second Person of the
Trinity, was sitting on His throne in Heaven while Jesus was on the earth.
I'd never read or heard anything like this regarding Calvin (or Calvinism
since his time). Does it ring any bells? Is it even a remotely correct
statement of Calvin's beliefs? If not, any ideas where it might have come
from?
I'm inclined to be skeptical of the textbook's statement, but was curious
enough to ask for any clarifications you may have.
In Christ,
Paul
----
[This sounds like a mistake, or a description that is so misleading as
to be in effect a mistake. Calvin wouldn't, of course, consider the
Logos as literally located in a place called heaven. The Logos is
omnipresent. If by Jesus you mean specifically the human nature of
Christ, then of course like any other human body, his was present in
only one place at a time.
The problem, however, is that the second Person of the Trinity and
Jesus are *one person*, a doctrine that Calvin accepted just as much
as anyone. So as long as the statement is contrasting the two natures,
then I guess it's OK, but the way it's worded it certainly suggests a
more complete separation than most of us would be happy with.
Calvin intended to present standard Christology, so I wouldn't expect
a major difference with anyone else on this question. I get the
impression that Luther was trying for something more sophisticated than
Calvin in Christology, but I'm not competent to describe it.
There was, however, a famous disagreement between Luther and Calvin
about the mode in which Christ is present in communion. Calvin
believed that Christ's body, like other human bodies, is only in one
place. Even after his death and resurrection. (After his resurrection
his body is presumably "in heaven", as long as you don't take that too
literally.) Thus his body can't be everywhere at once. While Calvin
believed that we really commune with Jesus' body, he believed that our
connection with it is mediated by the Holy Spirit.
Luther believed in a somewhat more literal presence. However the
difference can be exaggerated. The Book of Concord denies that Christ
is locally present everywhere, so the mode of presence they have in
mind is not quite that in which our physical bodies are present.
Indeed the Solid Declaration quotes Luther in a description that seems
tolerably consistent with Reformed thought, although not quite the way
Calvin would have put it.
--clh]