Was "Re: Will heaven be different things for different people?"

[James]

Re: Will heaven be different things for different people?
I am speculating what people from different cultures and different
levels of affluence may think about what heaven will be like.
A very affluent person may think of heaven as a place that is free of
pretentious trappings. No gold faucets. No streets of gold. No jewel
encrusted anythings.
A person who lives in a grass hut with a dirt floor with vermin and
insect pests may think of heaven as a wooden shack with wood flooring
and free from vermin and insects.
Would the person who has never known affluence be put off by the
trappings of affluence? Would the person who has only known affluence
be tired of it and yearn for simplicity, quiet, and anonymity?

Hello,

Actually, the Bible tells us that most of mankind will not experience
Heaven. That number is limited. (Re 14:1; 7:4) Rather they will live
on a paradise earth that God first intended. (Ge 1:15,28) Remember,
God's plans ALWAYS succeed, and His intention for the human family was
to have perfect humans living on a paradise earth. He is not going to
let Satan, Adam, Eve, or anyone else stop that fulfillment. Here is
some Bible proof. Isa 45:18,

"For this is what the LORD says-- he who created the heavens, he is
God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not
create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited--..." (NIV)

Also notice Ps 37:29,

"The upright will have the earth for their heritage, and will go on
living there for ever." (The Bible in Basic English)

Yes, God's word must be fulfilled, and it will. Isa 55:11,

"so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me
empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for
which I sent it." (NIV)


Sincerely, James

**If you wish to have a discussion with me, please use email since I
do not follow ng threads

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[Matthew Johnson]

Post by James

Re: Will heaven be different things for different people?
I am speculating what people from different cultures and different
levels of affluence may think about what heaven will be like.

[snip]

Post by James
Actually, the Bible tells us that most of mankind will not experience
Heaven.

Not quite.

Post by James
That number is limited. (Re 14:1; 7:4)

You are relying on a classic _mis_reading of those passages.

Let's take them one at a time; the first is:

Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him a
hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father's name
written on their foreheads. (Rev 14:1 RSVA)

Now what do we know about who it is who has His name and His Father's
name written on on their foreheads? Is this identical with those
saved? Or with those who will enter Heaven?

Really, it should have been obvious that neither is possible. For
referring to _exactly_ the same 144,000, he also says:

It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are
chaste; it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; these have
been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, (Rev
14:4 RSVA)

Now in this passage, when he says 'chaste', he does NOT include the
married. This is why so many other translations do not use 'chaste', but
rather, 'virgin'.

So do you believe we have to be virgins to get into heaven? Now that
would be a surprise.

Now let's look at the second; it is:

And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four
thousand sealed, out of every tribe of the sons of Israel, (Rev 7:4
RSVA).

Again, it is impossible that this refer to those who will enter
heaven, unless you believe that only Jews will enter heaven. For it
says quite clearly that they are ALL "out of the tribes of Israel".

Post by James
Rather they will live on a paradise earth that God first
intended. (Ge 1:15,28)

Wrong again. And not much connection with the verses you cite
either. For the first is:

and let them be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light
upon the earth." And it was so. (Gen 1:15 RSVA)

This has NOTHING to do with where God intended us to live, much less
where to live for all time.

The connection to the other verse you cite is even more tenuous:

And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply,
and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of
the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that
moves upon the earth." (Gen 1:28 RSVA)

Who are 'them', James? Is it all mankind, or just Adam and Eve?

Post by James
Remember, God's plans ALWAYS succeed,

Really? What about His plan that Nineveh would be destroyed in 40 days
(Jonah 3:4)? Or do you really believe He lied about His plan to Jonah?

Post by James
and His intention for the human family was to have perfect humans
living on a paradise earth. He is not going to let Satan, Adam, Eve,
or anyone else stop that fulfillment. Here is some Bible proof.

It is no 'proof' at all.

Post by James
Isa 45:18,
"For this is what the LORD says-- he who created the heavens, he is
God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not
create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited--..." (NIV)

And it is not empty. But this verse says nothing about whether it is
to be inhabited _forever_. Nothing at all. Why should it? This purpose
is _already_ fulfilled.

Post by James
Also notice Ps 37:29,
"The upright will have the earth for their heritage, and will go on
living there for ever." (The Bible in Basic English)

But if you interpret this as referring to _this_ earth, then what
about those who (according to you) go to heaven? Why don't they
inherit the earth, too? After all, they too are upright, aren't they?

Post by James
Yes, God's word must be fulfilled, and it will. Isa 55:11,
"so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me
empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for
which I sent it." (NIV)

But that purpose does NOT include acting out the fulfillment of JW
false dogma.