Is the Sermon on the Mt. a knock-out punch to salvation by good

[Matthew Johnson]

The Sermon on the Mount, beginning in Matthew 5, has Jesus appearing
to advocate a salvation that is based upon good works. Also, the
parable of the Sheep and the Goats of Matt 25, has the same
appearance. Also, the epistle of James seems to say that faith
without works is dead.
This appears to contrast with the message of the epistles of St. Paul
(Romans through Philemon).

Key word: 'appears'.

Paul appears to be saying that faith alone is the key to getting
saved.

And if you understand the right sense of the word 'faith', that is OK.

But now to back up. In the four gospels, when Jesus forgives sinners,
he says over and over again "your FAITH has saved you."

Yes, He does. But He is not even always talking about _eternal_
salvation when He says to someone, "your faith has saved
you". Sometimes, He is only talking about being saved from the illness
that they were healed from.

This happens many, many times in the gospels....... too many times to
mention here.
Now, how could the same Jesus demand good works, but then to
prostitutes and tax-collectors, he simply says, "your faith has saved
you?"

This would be easy to answer, if you would open your mind to the
possibility that the word 'faith' has multiple meanings, especially
when translating Greek, as here.
OK! Not only will I disagree with it, but I will even express my
disappointment that you call this YOUR opinion. FOr I have heard it
far too often from far too many other sources. It is much older than
you are, Bimms!

It is my opinion that Jesus elaborates upon hard-core legalism in the
Sermon on the Mount, in order to deliver a KNOCK OUT BLOW to those
who believe they can save themselves by good works.

Ah, yes, the old Protestant fallacy! Rather than recognize that it is
_precisely_ in works of faith that we "work out our salvation in fear
and trembling (cf. Php 2:13), you claim that he really isn't talking
about works of faith at all!

Jesus takes the old testament legalism, amplifies it, and makes it

No, that is not what He is doing. Rather, He is showing that where the
Law only required abstaining from committing evil deeds, the
righteousness of the Gospel requires abstaining from even the evil
thought that leads to the evil deed.

Old Testament says do not murder. Jesus says if you even get angry,
you have committed murder.

And anger is the thought that leads to murder (in the most common case
of motivation for murder).

Old Testament says do not commit adultery. Jesus says if you lust,
you have committed adultery.

Which again, is an example of the thought leading to the action.

And so on.........
Thus, far from being a good-works legalistic manifesto,

But by proposing _this_, Bimms, you have made your entire
argumentation rely on a worthless "straw-man" argument! Nobody with a
clue ever said that it was a "good-works _legalistic_ manifesto. Why
Mt 5:20 rules that out right away, _without_ embracing your
interpretation.

the whole point of Christ saying what he said was to make us realize
that we simply CANNOT earn our way to heaven, and we have to collapse
in despair........ but this despair turns to hope when we trust in
"the rock that makes them stumble, and whoever trusts IN HIM will
never be put to shame!!!!!!!!!" (Rom 9:33)

But this _entire_ interpretation relies on believing in several
errors! First of all, it requires you to _fail_ to notice that (as I
describe above), He is describing pairs of evil action/evil
thought. Secondly, it requires that you read teh Sermon of the Mount
out of context, arbitrarily _assuming_ that He is really thinking of
the ideas expressed in Rom 7 (esp. 7:24) -- and only of that!

Finally, the Mt 5:20 I mentioned above_should_ have made it clear that
your interpretation is IMPOSSIBLE. For if He meant as you do, that we
are to "collapse in despair", then He could NOT have told us that:

For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the
scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
(Mat 5:20 RSVA)

Remember: this prefaces the entire list of action/thought pairs, so it
explains what He is really doing with the list: showing us what kind
of righteousness we are really called to. It is NOT an "imputed
righteousness".

[zach]

Post by Matthew Johnson
Finally, the Mt 5:20 I mentioned above_should_ have made it clear that
your interpretation is IMPOSSIBLE. For if He meant as you do, that we
For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the
scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
(Mat 5:20 RSVA)
Remember: this prefaces the entire list of action/thought pairs, so it
explains what He is really doing with the list: showing us what kind
of righteousness we are really called to. It is NOT an "imputed
righteousness".

Who could be more righteous than a Pharisee, perfect keepers of The Law
(of whom Jesus never seemed to have kind words)? Wasn't this showing
the impossibility of the works of The Law leading to salvation?

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by zach

Post by Matthew Johnson
Finally, the Mt 5:20 I mentioned above_should_ have made it clear that
your interpretation is IMPOSSIBLE. For if He meant as you do, that we
For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the
scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
(Mat 5:20 RSVA)
Remember: this prefaces the entire list of action/thought pairs, so it
explains what He is really doing with the list: showing us what kind
of righteousness we are really called to. It is NOT an "imputed
righteousness".

Who could be more righteous than a Pharisee, perfect keepers of The Law
(of whom Jesus never seemed to have kind words)?

Almost anybody, because their so-called 'righteousnesss' wasn't really.

Post by zach
Wasn't this showing
the impossibility of the works of The Law leading to salvation?

No, it was not. For Mat 23:15 shows that they were not following works of the
Law at all. And that was their problem.

[l***@hotmail.com]

Post by Matthew Johnson

Post by zach
Wasn't this showing
the impossibility of the works of The Law leading to salvation?

No, it was not. For Mat 23:15 shows that they were not following works of the
Law at all. And that was their problem.

Yes it was because it took God Incarnate to fulfill it.

Rom. 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which
were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to
bear fruit for death.

1 Cor. 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the
law;

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by l***@hotmail.com

Post by Matthew Johnson

Post by zach
Wasn't this showing
the impossibility of the works of The Law leading to salvation?

No, it was not. For Mat 23:15 shows that they were not following
works of the Law at all. And that was their problem.

Yes it was because it took God Incarnate to fulfill it.

Did you even look at Mat 23:15? And how did you come up with this
non-sequitur?

Post by l***@hotmail.com
Rom. 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which
were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to
bear fruit for death.

That they were. But that didn't keep Noah and Job from being called
perfect, which has always been inconvenient for proponents of your
theology

Post by l***@hotmail.com
1 Cor. 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the
law;

And why do you think this citation supports you? I just don't see it.