Discussion:
Oh, those dry times
(too old to reply)
Jacob
2006-10-31 02:12:46 UTC
Permalink
If you have been a serious Christian for a reasonable amount of time
you would have come across some of those dry spells, when everything
seems to be rather low key - feelings, sense of the presence of God,
getting something from the word of God, interest in prayer, Bible
reading and fellowship with other Christians, sense of commitment,
purpose and boldness, etc. And we have wondered what was happening to
us.

The fact is, many times we are unable to understand what the matter is!
We think, if only we knew why things are like this we could do
something about them. We ask ourselves, "Is God angry with me?", "Have
I done anything wrong?", "Have I missed the way somewhere?", "Has God
left me on the shelf?", etc. We may thrash around with such questions
for some time, and give in to one of them out of despair, even though
we have a feeling in our heart, "It can't be!"

The experienced ones among us know all about these, and can instruct
others about them. But then when it strikes us unawares we are once
again sucked ino the whirlpool.

What can we do in such situations? Of course, we must first of all
check to see if we have gone astray in any way and if we need to set
some things right. That goes without saying. But after we have dealt
with such things and we are still puzzled, what shall we do? Those are
the times when we need to hold on to the bare facts of our faith. They
are 'bare' because they lack the thrills of bubbly feelings and
congenial circumstances. We look at the Lord and His word and conclude
that they are true and dependable, and then we choose to hold on. We
conclude that "after we have suffered for a little time" the God of all
grace will draw near to us again (1Pe.5:10).

It is not that He ever left us and went away. But we felt that way, and
it surely looked that way. Perhaps our physical tiredness or sickness
made us feel that way. Perhaps the anti-climax following some spiritual
mountain top experience made us somewhat exhausted for the time being.
Think of how God took care of Elijah when he, after the towering
experience of Mount Carmel, suddenly felt as though there was no hope.
God led him to a time of physical rest and gave him food and drink!
(1Ki.19:4-6).

Do we think we are so spiritual that we don't need rest? Do we imagine
that the ordinary laws of life on earth don't apply to us? Do we think
that if we are serving the mighty God we can take some liberties
without having to face the consequences? God says, "Don't fool
yourself! What you sow, that you will reap" (Ga.6:7).

We sometimes forget that we are not angels or supernatural beings who
do not need to eat, drink or sleep. We think we can work day and night,
fast often, pray long hours, sleep little, and 'burn ourselves out for
the Lord' without expecting to experience any burn-out! One day we will
have a glorified body, but not yet, brother.

http://www.c-n-c.org
j***@go.com
2006-11-03 03:18:07 UTC
Permalink
Jacob wrote:

<snip>
Post by Jacob
We look at the Lord and His word and conclude
that they are true and dependable, and then we choose to hold on. We
conclude that "after we have suffered for a little time" the God of all
grace will draw near to us again (1Pe.5:10).
On what basis do you conclude this? What *facts*
(not just words in an old book) would support this view?

<snip>

-- Jeffrey J. Sargent
Jacob
2006-11-06 02:57:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@go.com
On what basis do you conclude this? What *facts*
(not just words in an old book) would support this view?
It's not just me, but millions of people all around the world have put
their trust in Jesus and have come to experience His reality. And then
we also know that what all He has said in the 'old book' is reliable.
It is not something that we can argue about and prove (and therefore I
wouldn't like to get into an argument right now), but those who have
experienced it have come to love Jesus and His word.

Jacob
j***@go.com
2006-11-10 03:59:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jacob
Post by j***@go.com
On what basis do you conclude this? What *facts*
(not just words in an old book) would support this view?
It's not just me, but millions of people all around the world have put
their trust in Jesus and have come to experience His reality.
This can go one of two ways:
1) God plays favorites. My experience of His reality is
anything but pleasant, if indeed He is real at all. (Perhaps
I should be flattered that He thinks I can get along without
His aid, but is He right?)
2) Your appealing to others' experience suggests that
Christianity is like an urban legend -- it happened to
a friend of a friend, but never to me.
Post by Jacob
And then
we also know that what all He has said in the 'old book' is reliable.
That's just repeating what you said in your last article.
*How* do you know? I know, you don't want to answer,
because (as you admit below) you can't. There is no
reason to believe the Bible if it disagrees (as it does)
with real-life experience.
Post by Jacob
It is not something that we can argue about and prove (and therefore I
wouldn't like to get into an argument right now), but those who have
experienced it have come to love Jesus and His word.
This is not the place to start such a major topic, but
I have concluded that much Christian experience is
really no better than a communal high that conveniently
doesn't require illegal drugs.

-- Jeffrey J. Sargent
Jacob
2006-11-11 04:35:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@go.com
1) God plays favorites. My experience of His reality is
anything but pleasant, if indeed He is real at all. (Perhaps
I should be flattered that He thinks I can get along without
His aid, but is He right?)
2) Your appealing to others' experience suggests that
Christianity is like an urban legend -- it happened to
a friend of a friend, but never to me.
1) Can't it be that your own ideas of God, what to expect from Him, how
to approach Him, etc., may not have been correct? I mean, millions of
others have come to experience God. So it is not "necessarily" God
playing favourites, is it?

2) I am not appealing to others, but I am saying, it is not just me.
Post by j***@go.com
Post by Jacob
And then
we also know that what all He has said in the 'old book' is reliable.
That's just repeating what you said in your last article.
*How* do you know? I know, you don't want to answer,
because (as you admit below) you can't. There is no
reason to believe the Bible if it disagrees (as it does)
with real-life experience.
It's quite simple, actually. When we find out by experience that our
experience agrees with what the Bible says, and when we get to have a
personal relationship with God and get to know Him better and better,
we realise that even the other things in the Bible which we have not
yet experienced must be true.
Post by j***@go.com
Post by Jacob
It is not something that we can argue about and prove (and therefore I
wouldn't like to get into an argument right now), but those who have
experienced it have come to love Jesus and His word.
This is not the place to start such a major topic, but
I have concluded that much Christian experience is
really no better than a communal high that conveniently
doesn't require illegal drugs.
It is not that one cannot talk logically and make sense of the things
of God, but the basic requirement for understanding God is faith.
Without faith any amount of argument will be meaningless. But when we
have faith - trust and confidence in God - things fall into their
logical places.

Jacob
Bob
2006-11-17 04:01:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jacob
It is not that one cannot talk logically and make sense of the things
of God, but the basic requirement for understanding God is faith.
Without faith any amount of argument will be meaningless. But when we
have faith - trust and confidence in God - things fall into their
logical places.
I am obviously going through a "dry time" when my faith is being
tested. To see a parent with Alzheimers and the physical and mental
changes that are associated with the disease is appaling. To my
knowledge, no amount of prayer has ever healed an Alzheimer's patient.
There is no prognosis except a long drawn out death. So where does
faith in God enter into the equasion? Imagine the guilt when the best
prayer is "God, let my parent die". Add to the patients distress the
immense emotional toll of the family caregivers who's own health and
family stability come into question.
Then the doubt comes about why a "loving God" would put a whole family
through a situation like that. Test one, Ok. But why test a whole
family? Christ said children do not suffer for the sins of their
parents, but you sure couldn't prove it by me. Words of consolation
from the bible have little meaning when things get worse rather than
better. I readily admit I do not have the faith of Job.

Bob
B.G. Kent
2006-11-20 01:37:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Then the doubt comes about why a "loving God" would put a whole family
through a situation like that. Test one, Ok. But why test a whole
family? Christ said children do not suffer for the sins of their
parents, but you sure couldn't prove it by me. Words of consolation
from the bible have little meaning when things get worse rather than
better. I readily admit I do not have the faith of Job.
Bob
Sorry you are going through a tough time right now Bob. Perhaps one can
gets some answers by looking at what has happenned to those around the
sick person and what they have learnt about life and death..what is really
important...what this persons life has taught them and how they can learn
of anything at all positive of this experience as difficult or near
impossible it may seem at this time. I don't think things happen for no
reason. I believe there is a lesson to be learnt somewhere. I can't give
any guarantees....no one can really....but perhaps to just think of all
the love that is in your family may help shed light. I find some of my
strength is gained by going through hardship and I've seen quite a bit in
my 45 years....and I wouldn't change a bit of it for it's made me a lot
more loving and patient and tolerant.
Hugs to you dear friend,

Bren
Jacob
2006-11-22 03:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Bob,

It is certainly a difficult time to go through a major sickness in the
family. As you have written, many things go through our mind - "If God
is loving and almighty why does He allow this to happen?", "Whose fault
is it? Is it the patient's sin, or it it someone else's?" "What is my
faith if it does not bring any real answers in situations like this?"
etc. We don't have all the answers. We can give general answers about
the consequences of sin in the world, how there is sickness, sorrow,
pain, etc., and how all of us go through them. We know that what all
happen to us are not necessarily directly related to our sins or some
one else's sins but to the general presence of sin in the world. But
all this does not answer the painful questions that come up in our
mind.

On top of that there may be people who come and tell us, "You are not
getting healed because you don't have faith." If we didn't have faith,
we wouldn't have prayed, would we? Others say, "There must be some sin
in your life." Maybe there is. But would God just "punish" us without
telling us why? If He tells us we can repent and set it right. But if
He doesn't tell us anything, we can't blame ourselves.

I think it finally boils down to a test of our faith in God. When we
don't get all the answers, can we continue to trust in God? Can we
continue to trust when we can't see Him in action? When our situation
"demands" a certain type of response from God, can we trust Him enough
to be content with some other response from Him, knowing that He knows
best? The God we believe in is essentially loving, wise, powerful and
compassionate. We just have to believe that when we pray and He answers
in some way which is not very pleasant for us, He knows what He is
doing. One day when we stand before Him He will tell us what He was
doing. Till then we just have to hold on to trusting His judgment.

Jacob
Bob
2006-11-22 03:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by Bob
Then the doubt comes about why a "loving God" would put a whole family
through a situation like that. Test one, Ok. But why test a whole
family? Christ said children do not suffer for the sins of their
...
Post by B.G. Kent
Sorry you are going through a tough time right now Bob. Perhaps one can
gets some answers by looking at what has happenned to those around the
sick person and what they have learnt about life and death..what is really
important...what this persons life has taught them and how they can learn
...
Post by B.G. Kent
impossible it may seem at this time. I don't think things happen for no
reason. I believe there is a lesson to be learnt somewhere. I can't give
...

Thank you. Sometimes I just have to let off a little steam before I
pop.
I was talking to a preacher who goes to a nursing home fairly often and
he said the question he gets asked most often is "I've believed in God
and worshipped him my whole life. Why is he treating me like this
after all these years??" It's a hard question to answer.
Bob
B.G. Kent
2006-11-27 01:44:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Thank you. Sometimes I just have to let off a little steam before I
pop.
I was talking to a preacher who goes to a nursing home fairly often and
he said the question he gets asked most often is "I've believed in God
and worshipped him my whole life. Why is he treating me like this
after all these years??" It's a hard question to answer.
Bob
B - I would probably ask them why they think it is God doing this to them
and not their own agreement (on another level) that they must go through
this to learn?
I figure God is with you always...watching what you planned for yourself
to learn...and only in the strongest cases where it is just too much will
the angels/spirit guides petition for you to be able to change your chart
that you wrote for yourself. I figure we go through all these
times...horrid ,seemingly insurmountable times to learn what is most
important...not our physical earthly comfort..but what is most
important...how have we learnt to love? How would having lots of money...a
cushy life....and everything working out spiffy help us to learn? I'm not
sure but it's been the tough things in my life that I have learnt more and
faster from... an alcoholic parent, death , a rape, poverty and a
disability and on top of that life on this earth which is the harshest
school I know of. Bravo to all of us for choosing to learn here.

Just a thot.

Bren
B.G. Kent
2006-11-28 05:29:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Thank you. Sometimes I just have to let off a little steam before I
pop.
I was talking to a preacher who goes to a nursing home fairly often and
he said the question he gets asked most often is "I've believed in God
and worshipped him my whole life. Why is he treating me like this
after all these years??" It's a hard question to answer.
Bob
B - I would probably ask them why they think it is God doing this to them
and not their own agreement (on another level) that they must go through
this to learn?
I figure God is with you always...watching what you planned for yourself
to learn...and only in the strongest cases where it is just too much will
the angels/spirit guides petition for you to be able to change your chart
that you wrote for yourself. I figure we go through all these
times...horrid ,seemingly insurmountable times to learn what is most
important...not our physical earthly comfort..but what is most
important...how have we learnt to love? How would having lots of money...a
cushy life....and everything working out spiffy help us to learn? I'm not
sure but it's been the tough things in my life that I have learnt more and
faster from... an alcoholic parent, death , a rape, poverty and a
disability and on top of that life on this earth which is the harshest
school I know of. Bravo to all of us for choosing to learn here.

Just a thot.

Bren
Bob
2006-11-28 05:39:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by Bob
Thank you. Sometimes I just have to let off a little steam before I
pop.
I was talking to a preacher who goes to a nursing home fairly often and
he said the question he gets asked most often is "I've believed in God
and worshipped him my whole life. Why is he treating me like this
after all these years??" It's a hard question to answer.
Bob
B - I would probably ask them why they think it is God doing this to them
and not their own agreement (on another level) that they must go through
this to learn?
Similar to my thought - is the sufferings of old worn out bodies the
will of God, or the will of modern medicine? Did God design us to die
at an earlier age before these old age problems occur? We are living
longer, but are paying a price for it.
Post by B.G. Kent
I figure God is with you always...watching what you planned for yourself
to learn...
And occasionally laughing at our efforts, no doubt.
Post by B.G. Kent
and only in the strongest cases where it is just too much will
the angels/spirit guides petition for you to be able to change your chart
that you wrote for yourself. I figure we go through all these
times...horrid ,seemingly insurmountable times to learn what is most
important...not our physical earthly comfort..but what is most
important...how have we learnt to love? How would having lots of money...a
cushy life....and everything working out spiffy help us to learn?
I'm not sure but it's been the tough things in my life that I have learnt more and
faster from... an alcoholic parent, death , a rape, poverty and a
disability and on top of that life on this earth which is the harshest
school I know of. Bravo to all of us for choosing to learn here.
Life is definitely a learning experience, and I do think that God
watches how we react to good times and bad. We make the best
adjustments we can and move forward. But for those in their 80's,
90's, and above, they often lose the will to react to adversity. The
battle of life has been fought and they want nothing more than
contentment. And ask God if this is asking too much of them.

Bob
B.G. Kent
2006-11-29 01:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Similar to my thought - is the sufferings of old worn out bodies the
will of God, or the will of modern medicine? Did God design us to die
at an earlier age before these old age problems occur? We are living
longer, but are paying a price for it.
B - I think we could easily step out of this material existence without
the need for body breakdown and death if we understood how these realms
worked..but then perhaps there is much to learn in the slow decay of
either yourself..or others around you...for example..teaching you
sensitivity to others, stronger faith in God, how to be more compassionate
etc. Personally I don't need to live in this body for a long long
time..but I hope to have a good quality of the life that I do have.
Post by Bob
Post by B.G. Kent
I figure God is with you always...watching what you planned for yourself
to learn...
And occasionally laughing at our efforts, no doubt.
B - yes...I believe that God has a sense of humour!
Post by Bob
Life is definitely a learning experience, and I do think that God
watches how we react to good times and bad. We make the best
adjustments we can and move forward. But for those in their 80's,
90's, and above, they often lose the will to react to adversity. The
battle of life has been fought and they want nothing more than
contentment. And ask God if this is asking too much of them.
B - and in their loss of will to react to adversity perhaps they teach
others around them. If no man is an island ..that means that everything we
do affects others around us..for the good or bad. I see teachers
everywhere I look. :)
Post by Bob
Bob
hugs to Bob ..cuz I like him and it's cold here!

:)

Bren
Bob
2006-11-30 02:00:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
B - and in their loss of will to react to adversity perhaps they teach
others around them. If no man is an island ..that means that everything we
do affects others around us..for the good or bad. I see teachers
everywhere I look. :)
But I'm not sure it taught me what God wants of me. I was taught that
taking one's life was wrong because it was not God's will. But seeing
what family caregivers go through, often for years, I'm not sure I
could put my family through that. I love them too much. Hopefully I'll
never be faced with that decision because at this point I don't know
what I'd do. It's easy to give advice until one lives through a
situation like this.

For years now I have prayed "God, let me live a full and productive
life, but when my time comes take me quickly". I know He can, but I
wonder if He will.
Post by B.G. Kent
hugs to Bob ..cuz I like him and it's cold here!
Bren
(Hugs back cuz I like you too) And it's 75F degrees today. That's why
I never moved back north.

Bob
B.G. Kent
2006-12-01 03:07:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by B.G. Kent
B - and in their loss of will to react to adversity perhaps they teach
others around them. If no man is an island ..that means that everything we
do affects others around us..for the good or bad. I see teachers
everywhere I look. :)
But I'm not sure it taught me what God wants of me. I was taught that
taking one's life was wrong because it was not God's will. But seeing
what family caregivers go through, often for years, I'm not sure I
could put my family through that. I love them too much. Hopefully I'll
never be faced with that decision because at this point I don't know
what I'd do. It's easy to give advice until one lives through a
situation like this.
B - Usually people who do take their lives are in a very depressed
state....depression is a form of sickness. I personally don't think God
would judge us against that...but I not in the middle of this..and funny
what how one can change their tune when it hits home to them.
Post by Bob
For years now I have prayed "God, let me live a full and productive
life, but when my time comes take me quickly". I know He can, but I
wonder if He will.
B - Have faith.
Post by Bob
Post by B.G. Kent
hugs to Bob ..cuz I like him and it's cold here!
Bren
(Hugs back cuz I like you too) And it's 75F degrees today. That's why
I never moved back north.
Bob
B - Heh...we have snow on the ground and ice...very unusual for November
on the west coast....but this too will pass. I'd never want to live
anyplace else (on earth that is!).

:)

Bren

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