Perfection and perfectionists

[Jacob]

God wants us to be perfect (Mt.5:48). He has given us commandments and
instructions so that we can become more and more perfect in all that
we do, say, and think. When we are born again, we also get a desire in
our heart to be pleasing to the Lord in every way.

But some people ask, "Are you real? Can anyone be perfect?" Of course,
only God is perfect. But when He caused us to be born again as His
children, He has not only forgiven our sins but also started a work in
us to transform us into the nature of His Son, Jesus Christ (Ro.
8:28,29). This means a transformation of our way of thinking and
behaviour (Ro.12:1,2). This process is called 'sanctification' which
goes on and on as long as we live.

But as long as we are under this process, we are never going to be
perfect in the sense of having no flaw or fault in us. We are all
aware of how we do many things wrong, unknowingly and sometimes even
knowingly because of our weakness. The apostle James was honest enough
to admit that (Jas.3:2). God has made provisions for us to repent and
confess our sins so that we can receive forgiveness and start again
(1Jn.2:1). This implies that the perfection God expects from us is not
one where we are without fault. He wants us to be mature, and to live
in accordance with whatever level of understanding we have at any
point in time. As we do this, He will also give us more understanding
so that our level of maturity can go up higher.

God wants us to be perfect in His sight, and not before people (Ge.
17:1). There is no way we can be pleasing to all people, and if we try
we will only get into a bondage (Ga.1:10;Pr.29:25). Since God looks at
our heart - our thoughts and intentions - and not at our outward
actions (1Sa.16:7), and since He understands us perfectly, it is
actually easier for us to be pleasing to Him!

Are we scared of perfection? One reason may be that we know we are not
perfect and we think it is unrealistic to aim for perfection. We have
addressed this aspect already. There are some Christians who actually
believe that they have already become perfect, wholly sanctified,
etc., due to a misinterpretation of doctrine. Let this also not hinder
us.

Another reason may be that we don't like perfectionists! The problem
with perfectionists is not that they are seeking to be perfect - which
is really a good thing for everybody - but that they demand that
others should also be perfect! The more they understand how they
themselves should be, they start looking at other people and their
imperfections! And then they start telling others how they should be
perfect, sometimes with a sincere desire for the others' welfare and
sometimes also from a sense of superiority.

If some people are going wrong, that should not prevent us from
pursuing perfection in the right way. Let us seek to be more and more
pleasing to the Lord. Then we will also be a blessing to others.

http://www.c-n-c.org

[DKleinecke]

On Feb 25, 8:02 pm, Jacob <***@gmail.com> wrote:

God wants us to be perfect (Mt.5:48).

Unfortunately he forget to tell us what perfect means. All kinds of
religious teachers from Moses and Paul on down to TV evangelists have
extracted commandments from the Bible and their imagination and told
us that following them is the way to perfection. Well actually I have
never encountered a preacher who advocated becoming perfect - most of
them just want us to "go to heaven" and avoid hell.

Actually Matthew 5:48 doesn't say perfect. It says TELEIOI (it is in
Greek, of course, and actually there is another word, now lost,
probably in Western Aramaic, that is even closer to what Jesus said.

I submit whatever Matthew 5:48 precisely meant has been lost. All that
remains is an admonition to do the best we can. So lets all keep up
the good work.

[gilgames]

<<
Actually Matthew 5:48 doesn't say perfect. It says TELEIOI (it is in
Greek, of course, and actually there is another word, now lost,
probably in Western Aramaic, that is even closer to what Jesus said.

I submit whatever Matthew 5:48 precisely meant has been lost. All that
remains is an admonition to do the best we can. So lets all keep up
the good work.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven
is perfect.

teleios is from telos, something which is made, reached the definite
purpose.

We had to be like the heavenly father, without any want, whole,
finished. Naturally God in absolute terms, we with our limitations. For
us now this is just an aspiration in the heaven this will be the
reality: the fullness.

[gilgames]

<<
Actually Matthew 5:48 doesn't say perfect. It says TELEIOI (it is in
Greek, of course, and actually there is another word, now lost,
probably in Western Aramaic, that is even closer to what Jesus said.

I submit whatever Matthew 5:48 precisely meant has been lost. All that
remains is an admonition to do the best we can. So lets all keep up
the good work.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven
is perfect.

teleios is from telos, something which is made, reached the definite
purpose.

We had to be like the heavenly father, without any want, whole,
finished. Naturally God in absolute terms, we with our limitations. For
us now this is just an aspiration in the heaven this will be the
reality: the fullness.

[l***@hotmail.com]

Post by Jacob
God wants us to be perfect (Mt.5:48). He has given us commandments and
instructions so that we can become more and more perfect in all that
we do, say, and think. When we are born again, we also get a desire in
our heart to be pleasing to the Lord in every way.

"Perfect" in the Epistle to the Hebrews has acquired a technical
meaning from the LXX in which it signifies an inward fitness to
approach God. For validation of this point, see Gerhard Delling,
"telo=DF," in TDNT 8:79-86; Mois=E9s Silva, "Perfection and Eschatology in
Hebrews," Westminster Theological Journal 39 (1976): 61; and P. J. du
Plessis, TELEIOS: The Idea of Perfection in the New Testament (Kampen:
Kok, 1959), 230.

The words teleios and teleioo are regularly used to denote maturity (1
Cor 2:6; 3:1; 14:20; Eph 4:13; Phil 3:15; Col 1:28; 4:12; Heb 5:14).
Arndt & Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the NT, s.v. teleioo, and
teleios, 809-10.

Of all NT books, the Epistle of James uses the words teleioo and
teleios second in frequency (6 times) only to Hebrews (11 times).
Read 1:17 and 1:25. In James the contrast is between a mature faith
and immature faith. James reminds his readers that trials can lead to
endurance, and endurance should be permitted to "have its perfect
[teleios] work, that you may be perfect [teleios] and complete,
lacking nothing" (1:4). The same Greek root used in 1:4 is employed by
James in 2:22 (teleioo) to describe the maturing of Abraham's faith.
If the believer will respond to trials with joy and allow endurance to
have its perfecting (maturing) work, he will develop a mature,
complete character. Since immediately following the Jas 2:14-26
context the author brings up the thought of maturity again (3:2),
there is no reason to think that the concept should not be given much
greater weight in the James 2 unit than any conception of a so-called
false faith.

It is also of interest to look at the "Rich Young Ruler" or RYR in
regards to teleios or
"perfection." It was not uncommon for many Jews of Jesus' day to
assume that they were sinless in their complete keeping of the law.
Strack und Billerbeck notes:

"That man possesses the ability to fulfill the Commandments of God
perfectly was so firmly believed by the Rabbis, that they spoke in all
seriousness of people who had kept the whole Law from A to Z."

[Strack und Billerbeck, 1:814. Alfred Plummer, The Gospel According
to St. Luke, 423: "That it was possible to keep the whole law is an
idea which is frequent in the Talmud. Abraham, Moses, and Aaron were
held to have done so. R. Chanina says to the Angel of Death, "'Bring
me the book of the Law and see whether there is anything written in it
which I have not kept' (Schoettg. I, pp. 160-61)."]

Jesus tests the RYR's claim as to being capable of doing something
worthy enough to earn eternal life. He moves from enjoining obedience
to the commandments in general to specifying particular commandments
in the second table of the law. "You shall not murder, You shall not
commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false
witness, Honor your father and your mother." In Matthew, Jesus
concludes by saying, "and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Love of neighbor is the summary statement encompassing the
commandments in the second part of the Decalogue. [refer to Robert L.
Thomas "The Rich Young Man in Matthew" Grace Theological Journal 3:2
(Fall 1982), 257.] As Paul later commented, "He who loves another
has fulfilled the law" (Rom 13:8).

Up to this point in the RYR conversation with the young Rabbi, he
exhibits having learned nothing new. Rabbinic theology had taught him
that the keeping of the commands of the Torah, controlling the evil
impulse by the good, was "the prerequisite for participation in the
life of the future world." [cp. TDNT, 2:15]

The RYR then replies with a sense of self-satisfaction and relief that
he has wholly kept the commandments.Basically his thoughts were that
if the eternal inheritance could be secured on so simple a condition
as keeping of the Decalogue, it was his already. "All these I have
kept, from my youth up"-that is, from the age of accountability, his
early teen years. This assertion is framed as a statement of absolute
compliance. The language is perfectionistic in tone and does not
allow for admission of failure. "The young man's response is easily
the most self-righteous boast to be found anywhere in the NT...how
readily this man might have joined in the prayer of the Pharisee, 'God
I thank you that I am not like other men.'"[Zane Hodges, "Absolutely
Free" p.185] But indeed he was like other men. He was not the "good"
man he boasted to be.

Like many even today, at this point the RYR still doesn't get the fact
that he is a sinner. There is none good but God. He is oblivious to
his depravity. He has missed the primary and deeper intent of the
giving of the Law. By comparison with others, the RYR must surely
have been among the cream of the crop in his attendance to moral duty;
yet, how could a holy God accept his flawed righteousness to grant
eternal life with Himself? Would such a God give perfection in the
resurrection for imperfection during this life?

"What do I still lack?" he asked. The RC theologian,* who argues for
Jesus' consciousness being omniscient, would have us holding the
thought that Jesus could have cited numerous situations in the young
man's life where he had failed in thought, word, or deed to carry out
each of the commandments He had cited. Yet even Protestant
theologians, who maintain a more limited view of Christ's
consciousness, would allow that Jesus still "knew" mens hearts
adequately from a non-sin-tainted awareness. Assuming, for the sake
of argument, that the young man was correct in his assessment, Jesus
zeroed in on an area of weakness in an ad hominem argumentum that
would prove to be that which would then wound the RYR's conscience
enough to shatter the self-assured myth that he had kept the law.
Jesus advised the RYR:

"If you wish to be perfect, go and sell all the possessions you have,
and give them to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. And
come and follow Me."

Thus perfection is that obligatory standard set for obtaining eternal
life. As Jeremias notes:

"In later Judaism the basic meaning of "perfect" was "fully
righteous," one who keeps the whole Torah...It follows then that
according to Jesus' view, to give all one's possessions for the poor
is part of the complete fulfillment of the law."

[Jeremias, "Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus", 127.]

____________________
*The RC theologian error in their teaching of supererogatory goodness,
with the teaching of the peculiar merit of voluntary property. They
have regarded the teaching as counsel, but in the text it is a command.