Was: "Re: The Bible"

[b***@allvantage.com]

Re: The Bible

The Bible is the word of God written for our instruction. You ask for
proof. The proof is that what God says in the Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16
Col 3:16
One needs faith in God and the scriptures. Matthew 4:4
God says to meditate on the scriptures daily. Psalms 1:2-3
Once you and anyone is born again the sciptures will be clear and the
understanding will come! This is true because I see it happening to
the people who trust the lord and ask HIM in their hearts. This is not
my opinion but a true fact!

You are saying that the Bible is the word of god because that what's
written in it is the word of god? That's circular logic.

Hello,

Respectfully, let's try it another way that might be easier for you to
understand.

A math school book says 1 + 1 = 2. Do you believe that 1+1=2 because
that is what's written in the math book? Obviously, much more is
involved. You likely believe the text book because you don't believe
they would put out a false textbook to the public. And you belive it
because mathematical proof has been done to show that 1+1=2, etc.

It is similar with the Bible. True believers do not accept the Bible
ONLY because it says so. If that was the case, they should also believe
the Koran or any other religious book that claims to be from God, just
because it says so.

No, believers in the Bible believe it because of many things, such as
historical and scientific accuracy, the many prophecies given well in
advance of their fulfillments, the wise instruction on living at any
spot in time, etc, etc.

And the Bible itself does not promote credulity. It wants you to check
it out. 1 Th 5:21,

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." (KJV)

Also Pr 14:15,

"A simple man believes anything, but a prudent man gives thought to his
steps. " (NIV)

Yes, true Bible believers are "prudent". True, they don't understand
everything in the Bible (neither does science understand everything
scientific), but they don't throw out all the Bible information they do
know to be true, just because they can't prove some things the Bible
claims to be true.

I hope this has helped you to understand these things a little better.


Sincerely, James


***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by b***@allvantage.com

Re: The Bible

[snip]

Post by b***@allvantage.com

You are saying that the Bible is the word of god because that what's
written in it is the word of god? That's circular logic.

Hello,
Respectfully, let's try it another way that might be easier for you
to understand.
A math school book says 1 + 1 = 2. Do you believe that 1+1=2 because
that is what's written in the math book? Obviously, much more is
involved. You likely believe the text book because you don't believe
they would put out a false textbook to the public. And you belive it
because mathematical proof has been done to show that 1+1=2, etc.

This is a false analogy. A _good_ math school book explains _why_
"1+1=2". The Bible makes no such attempt (on most issues it mentions).

Post by b***@allvantage.com
It is similar with the Bible.

Not similar enough for your analogy to be _anything_ other than
misleading. You have still not cleared suneejan of the original
accusation of "circular logic". Nor have you offered a better
alternative.

Post by b***@allvantage.com
True believers do not accept the Bible ONLY because it says so. If
that was the case, they should also believe the Koran or any other
religious book that claims to be from God, just because it says so.

And this is a major problem: many Christians _do_ say the "accept it
because it says so", and then profess amazement that others do likewise
with other "holy books".

Post by b***@allvantage.com
No, believers in the Bible believe it because of many things, such as
historical and scientific accuracy, the many prophecies given well in
advance of their fulfillments, the wise instruction on living at any
spot in time, etc, etc.

You miss the point. All it takes is ONE prophecy that was not
fulfilled to destroy this argument. And the Prophets themselves admit
that not all prophecies were fulfilled. Jonah prophecied Nineveh would
be destroyed, and Ezekiel prophecied that Nebuchadnezzar would take
Tyre. Neither happened.

Not to mention: WHAT "historical and scientific accuracy"? Every
attempt, for example, to correlate Biblical chronologies with those of
secular historians has run into _serious_ problems. We can't even find
when the census of Luk 2:1 took place: all historical records of a
census are too early or too late for that time frame.

Post by b***@allvantage.com
And the Bible itself does not promote credulity. It wants you to
check it out. 1 Th 5:21,
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." (KJV)

Not so fast. What about the prominent display of 'credulity' that
Nathaniel showed upon meeting Christ (Jn 1:49)? What about James
insisting that you must believe when you pray (Jam 1:6)? What is the
difference between these and 'credulity'?

Post by b***@allvantage.com
Also Pr 14:15,
"A simple man believes anything, but a prudent man gives thought to
his steps. " (NIV)

This is quoted out of context. It is not applicable to this
discussion. For the term so carelessly translated as 'simple man' is
H6612, which _really_ means a man who allows others to make decisions
for him (because he is so lacking in self-reliance).

Post by b***@allvantage.com
Yes, true Bible believers are "prudent".

Unlike the so-called "Jehovah's Witnesses", who toss all prudence
aside, and _do_ allow the Watchtower Society to make all their major
decisions for them -- just like the 'simple man' reproved in Pro
14:15!

So, for example, until VERY recently, all "Jehovah's Witnesses" were
_forbidden_ to allow blood transfusions, even if the patients life
depended on it. A lot of people died because of this false
'obedience'.

Clearly, you were _not_ following 1 Thess 5:21 when you followed this
_disastrous_ misinterpretation of Scripture. So why should we believe
you now, when you claim to understand these two verses? Answer: we
should not.

[snip]