Discussion:
HOW TO ANSWER MORMON MISSIONARIES.
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anti-cult
2008-04-10 03:58:12 UTC
Permalink
Basic beliefs of Mormons explained
By Mike Licona
NAMB, Director, Apologetics and Interfaith Evangelism
Updated Monday, April 07, 2008

Mormonism started in 1830 with 24-year-old year old Joseph Smith Jr.
According to Smith, he had several experiences, during which God,
Jesus, and the angel Moroni gave him instructions. Part of the
instructions was to dig up some gold plates buried by the angel Moroni
around A.D. 400 on a hill just outside of Smith's town of Palmyra, New
York. Smith dug up the plates, claimed they were written in "Reformed
Egyptian," and that God had given him the ability to translate them.
This translation became known as the Book of Mormon, an account of the
ancient inhabitants of North America between 600 B.C. and A.D. 400.

Mormons have four sources of authority: the Bible, the Book of Mormon,
the Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrine and Covenants. The Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has become one of the fastest-
growing religions in the world. The church owns Brigham Young
University.

Mormon beliefs are fundamentally different from biblical
Christianity.
1. God. Once a human as we are now, and progressed to become God. He
is one of many gods.
2. Man. Has the ability to progress and become a god just as Jehovah
did.
3. Marriage. Polygamy is no longer advocated, although it once was
encouraged.
4. Jesus. The son of God, but not part of the Godhead. Mormons do not
believe in the Trinity.

Mormons are very sincere about their faith. Conversations with Mormon
missionaries promise to be cordial. Mormon scholars, such as those at
Brigham Young University, are well aware of the challenges which face
Mormonism.

What do Mormons tell you when they visit?

When Mormons visit you, they usually will not focus on the doctrines
previously mentioned. In fact, they probably will not even bring them
up during the first few meetings. Instead they will seek to find
common ground with you on many of the doctrines Christians believe.
For example, they may begin by saying that God revealed the Old
Testament through Moses and the prophets. Then Jesus came, was
crucified and resurrected. His disciples wrote books and letters that
became the New Testament. We all agree on these facts.

Then the differences begin. They will tell you that before Jesus'
ascension into heaven, He appeared to the inhabitants of North America
and gave them the gospel as well. His message and the history of these
inhabitants from 600 B.C. to A.D. 400 are recorded in the Book of
Mormon.
Furthermore, they will tell you that since the apostles were not
replaced when they were killed, the Church went into apostasy. In
other words, it abandoned the true faith, and consequently, a
restoration was necessary. Mormons believe that God chose Joseph Smith
to bring that restoration; therefore, the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints is the true Church.

How to answer Mormons

Mormons are well equipped to answer many of the issues Christians
bring to their attention and have answers adequate to silence the
average critic. The Mormon missionaries who come to your door are
cordial and will listen to what you have to say. Enjoy the opportunity
to share your faith with them, but be prepared by having good answers.
Although there are many issues, which you may bring to the Mormons'
attention, focus on four that are of primary importance:

A. The Bible is reliable. Mormons claim that the Bible has been
corrupted over the years as evidenced by the many different
translations. How do we know that the Bible we have today is the same
as it was 2,000 years ago? The original words of the Bible have been
preserved with remarkable purity and that its accuracy has been
confirmed by both history and archaeology. Variances among English
translations do not call into question the preservation of the Bible
over the years. Until you have shown this to a Mormon, it is useless
to point out that some Mormon doctrines differ from the Bible. They
will only respond that the Bible is unreliable.

B. There is no archaeological confirmation of the Book of Mormon.
While the spade of the archaeologist has confirmed many places and
peoples mentioned in the Bible, it has not been at all favorable to
the Book of Mormon. Although Mormons will confidently assert that
archaeology has confirmed the Book of Mormon's accuracy time and time
again, professional archaeologists have arrived at quite a different
conclusion.

C. The Book of Abraham is a fraud. The Book of Abraham is one of the
books in the Pearl of Great Price, one of Mormonism's scriptures.
Joseph Smith purchased some ancient Egyptian papyri and claimed it was
an original book penned by Abraham himself while in Egypt. He
translated it allegedly by the same gift, which God had given him to
translate the Book of Mormon. Professional Egyptologists have
translated the papyri since their rediscovery in 1967. Their
translations bear no resemblance to Smith's translation, exposing him
as a charlatan.

D. Evidence for Mormonism? Mormons are convinced that Mormonism is
true because the inward testimony of God tells them so. If you are
going to be effective when talking to Mormons, it is crucial that you
address this issue. Otherwise, no amount of solid evidence, which
testifies against Mormonism, will be of help to them.

(EDITOR'S NOTE - The North American Mission Board's apologetics web
site, www.4truth.net, carries much more information about many brands
of religion.)

http://www.truthandgrace.com/Mormon.htm
Matthew Johnson
2008-04-11 02:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by anti-cult
Basic beliefs of Mormons explained
By Mike Licona
NAMB, Director, Apologetics and Interfaith Evangelism
Updated Monday, April 07, 2008
[snip]
Post by anti-cult
Mormon beliefs are fundamentally different from biblical
Christianity.
That has got to be the understatement of the year!
Post by anti-cult
1. God. Once a human as we are now, and progressed to become God. He
is one of many gods.
This should be really easy to refute. Isa 45:5-7 comes to mind. So does Gen 1,
where God is in the beginning, and the _first_ man comes only later, in 1:26.

Perhaps they will quibble that Adam was not the first, but then it would be time
to remind them that the very name 'Adam' means Man, the very name 'Eve' means
"mother of all living things [people]". So the intent of Gen 1 should be clear:
the creation of Adam is the creation of all Mankind. No room for YHWH to be a
human person who became God.
Post by anti-cult
2. Man. Has the ability to progress and become a god just as Jehovah
did.
3. Marriage. Polygamy is no longer advocated, although it once was
encouraged.
4. Jesus. The son of God, but not part of the Godhead.
Again, this should be easy to refute: what kind of Son would God have if not
God? This is difficult to refute only for people who already have an inclination
to fail to embrace the Trinity.
Post by anti-cult
Mormons do not
believe in the Trinity.
There's another great understatement;)
Post by anti-cult
Mormons are very sincere about their faith.
True, but so what? No one is handing out prizes for 'sincerity' in a wrong
faith. Christ hands out crowns for sincerity in the right faith, the faith He
reveals to us.
Post by anti-cult
Conversations with Mormon
missionaries promise to be cordial. Mormon scholars, such as those at
Brigham Young University, are well aware of the challenges which face
Mormonism.
What do Mormons tell you when they visit?
When Mormons visit you, they usually will not focus on the doctrines
previously mentioned. In fact, they probably will not even bring them
up during the first few meetings.
But if we bring them up, won't that discourage them from returning?
Post by anti-cult
Instead they will seek to find
common ground with you on many of the doctrines Christians believe.
This is an old psychological trick, used by cultists and advertisers alike: get
your victim to say 'yes' on the first proposition, and he is more likely to say
'yes' to the next proposition, no matter how dubious it is.

A sad, but all too true characteristic of most people.
Post by anti-cult
For example, they may begin by saying that God revealed the Old
Testament through Moses and the prophets.
That would be a good time to bring up Isa 45:5-7:

[so that you might know] that I am the LORD God, and that there is no god other
than Me, and you did not know me; that they might know from the rising of the
sun to the setting of the sun that there is none besides Me, I am the LORD God
and there is no other, I am the one who makes light and creates darkness, who
forms good and creates evils, the God who does all these things (Isa 45:5-7)
Post by anti-cult
Then Jesus came, was
crucified and resurrected. His disciples wrote books and letters that
became the New Testament. We all agree on these facts.
But the Mormons only _say_ they agree. But they do not agree with what the
Prohet Isaiah wrote, therefore, they do _not_ agree that "God revealed the Old
Testament through Moses and the prophets."
Post by anti-cult
Then the differences begin. They will tell you that before Jesus'
ascension into heaven, He appeared to the inhabitants of North America
and gave them the gospel as well.
Then they do not agree with the Gospels, either. For the Gospels have him first
appearing after His crucifixion to Mary Magdelene. It is pretty hard to
rationalize believing that He appeared to anyone else before that.

Indeed: it is only because people are not _familiar_ enough with the Gospels
that they can fall for such rationalization.
Post by anti-cult
His message and the history of these
inhabitants from 600 B.C. to A.D. 400 are recorded in the Book of
Mormon.
Furthermore, they will tell you that since the apostles were not
replaced when they were killed, the Church went into apostasy.
This too, is hard to reconcile with the New Testament. There never _was_ a
command to replace the Apostles, who were distinguished by being eyewitnesses of
the Lord, with other Apostles. How could there be? There were no other
eyewitnesses to replace them with after John died.

[snip]
Post by anti-cult
A. The Bible is reliable. Mormons claim that the Bible has been
corrupted over the years as evidenced by the many different
translations. How do we know that the Bible we have today is the same
as it was 2,000 years ago? The original words of the Bible have been
preserved with remarkable purity and that its accuracy has been
confirmed by both history and archaeology.
What "history and archaeology" are _you_ referring to? Most history and
archaeology does not pretend to verify the accuracy of ancient texts. This is
the topic of "textual criticism", NOT of history or archaeology.

BTW: textual critics are NOT unanimous in saying that "the Bible we have today
is the same as it was 2,000 years ago". On the contrary: even Bruce Metzger
wrote a glowing review of Bart Ehrman's book "The Orthodox Corruption of
Scripture".

You can guess from the title what Ehrman's opinion of that 'accuracy' is:(
Post by anti-cult
Variances among English
translations do not call into question the preservation of the Bible
over the years.
This is true. That is a really weak point in the Mormon's argument. But those
variances _are_ confusing; that is why I made the decision years ago _never_ to
rely on English translations. But not everyone has access to better
alternatives.
Post by anti-cult
Until you have shown this to a Mormon, it is useless
to point out that some Mormon doctrines differ from the Bible. They
will only respond that the Bible is unreliable.
And why do you think pointing this out to them will stop them? I can't see why
it would.
Post by anti-cult
B. There is no archaeological confirmation of the Book of Mormon.
True. But there is no archaeological confirmation of Moses leading the people
through Sinai either. So that is a weak argument. Why _would_ there be
archaeological evidence of Christ's visit to the New World?

[snip]
--
------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
B
2008-04-11 02:20:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by anti-cult
Basic beliefs of Mormons explained
By Mike Licona
NAMB, Director, Apologetics and Interfaith Evangelism
Updated Monday, April 07, 2008
Mormonism started in 1830 with 24-year-old year old Joseph Smith Jr.
According to Smith, he had several experiences, during which God,
Post by anti-cult
D. Evidence for Mormonism? Mormons are convinced that Mormonism is
true because the inward testimony of God tells them so.
B - How is this different than what Paul told people? that God told
him? I'm not so sure what the problem is here.

If you are
Post by anti-cult
going to be effective when talking to Mormons, it is crucial that you
address this issue. Otherwise, no amount of solid evidence, which
testifies against Mormonism, will be of help to them.
B - we have very little real evidence for many things spiritual..but
we believe because we believe.
Post by anti-cult
(EDITOR'S NOTE - The North American Mission Board's apologetics web
site,www.4truth.net, carries much more information about many brands
of religion.)
http://www.truthandgrace.com/Mormon.htm
B - I simply say thanks but no thanks when they come to the door.. I
love their emphasis on the family..but that's about where it ends for
me...besides our love of Christ. I'm strong in my faith..and no one
coming to the door is going to change it anyway. I know and love many
Mormons as well as others of different faiths...if it works for
them..it works for them.

Blessings of Christ,
B.
DKleinecke
2008-04-14 00:29:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by B
Post by anti-cult
Basic beliefs of Mormons explained
By Mike Licona
NAMB, Director, Apologetics and Interfaith Evangelism
Updated Monday, April 07, 2008
Mormonism started in 1830 with 24-year-old year old Joseph Smith Jr.
According to Smith, he had several experiences, during which God,
Post by anti-cult
D. Evidence for Mormonism? Mormons are convinced that Mormonism is
true because the inward testimony of God tells them so.
B - How is this different than what Paul told people? that God told
him? I'm not so sure what the problem is here.
Now that the subject has come up I want to compare, at least for a
moment, the Mormons and the Muslims. There seems to me to be a great
deal of parallelism between the two faiths. But I cannot bring myself
to believe that Joseph Smith was in any way influenced by Islam. The
two seem to be independent - but very similar - "innovations". I put
the scare quotes on "innovations" because, while I feel sure Smith was
massively innovating, I am less sure about Rasul Allah. In many ways
Islam seems to be an attempt to go back to the origins.

I have a standard question which one might use on Mormon missionaries:
How can you define Christianity so that the Mormons are Christians and
the Muslims are not Christians?

There are at least three ways to answer this question - (1) neither
Mormons nor Muslims are Christians, (2) somehow differentiate better
than the obvious superficial differences (such as the Book of Mormon
versus the Qur'an) (3) both Mormons and Muslims are Christians (but
the Muslims, for historical reasons, do not want to be called
Christians while the Mormons do want to be).

Personally I opt for answer (3) - God is what really matters and all
of us acknowledge the same God. Of course, I add the Jews and the
Bahai and doubtless other religions to the mix. The name
"Christianity" becomes somewhat of a misnomer in this solution - but
both Mormons and Muslims do acknowledge Jesus and give him
approximately the same authority.

There does not seem to be any agreed-upon name for the big religion
including all of us - Jews, Christians, Muslims and so on. I wonder
why.

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