**Rowland Croucher**
2009-08-26 01:42:37 UTC
A few brief notes on BEYOND STEREOTYPES: CHRISTIANS & HOMOSEXUALITY (The=20
Evangelical Alliance Working Group on Human Sexuality), Australian=20
Evangelical Alliance, 2009, 108 pages.
My thesis: Evangelicals who believe in =91the supreme authority of the=20
Scriptures=92 have come a long way in terms of freedom for slaves,=20
equality for women, and grace for the divorced, and are now on a similar=20
journey as they relate to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT)=20
people=85
Interviewer (to Evangelical Church Leader): Remember when, just a couple=20
of generations ago, we used to fight about Christians not dancing, not=20
drinking alcohol, not remarrying after divorce, not working on=20
Sabbath/Sunday, not giving leadership roles to women etc.? What=92s the=20
current situation?
Evangelical Church Leader: Wow, yes, times have changed haven=92t they?=20
Significant paradigm shifts have occurred in all these areas =96 and=20
others. Now we allow divorced people to be leaders, even pastors; now=20
many Christians drink alcohol =96 hopefully in moderation; these days we=20
can cope with whatever people do on Sundays (they can even enjoy=20
themselves!); and yes, we have women in leadership at every level in our=20
denomination. (And once we could make an excellent case from the Bible=20
against these positions).
I: OK let=92s talk about sex. In your evangelical tradition, what=92s=20
prohibited?
ECL: That=92s simple, really: no sex before marriage, no adultery after=20
marriage, no sex between people of the same gender.
I: So fornication, adultery, homosexual sex are out. Which is worse of=20
these three areas of sinfulness?
ECL: They=92re all equally sinful.
I: Are they? Has your denomination had a task-force on homosexuality?
ECL: Yes, every denomination has.
I: On adultery?
ECL: No, we leave discipline in that area to local churches, unless=20
pastors are involved, and they=92re disciplined according to best-practic=
e=20
protocols=85
I: Fornication?
ECL: Our pastors preach against it, and do pre-marriage counseling in=20
this area, and that=92s about it.
I: Do you know the incidence of church members (especially young people)=20
who marry in your churches who=92ve had sexual intercourse before their=20
wedding-day?
ECL: No, but I guess it would be a majority=85
I: Not only is it a majority, but according to surveys among pastors who=20
really know their people, it=92s somewhere between 70-90% in mainline=20
evangelical churches in Western countries. Now, if all three areas of=20
=91sexual sinfulness=92 are to attract attention/discipline, wouldn=92t y=
ou=20
think that area would too?
ECL: Sure, when you put it like that.
I: But it doesn=92t eh? Why is that?
ECL: I frankly don=92t know.
I: I=92ll tell you. The rationale is not theological but personal =96=20
they=92re our children! The problem is not what we believe, but what the=20
Chinese call =91face=92!
I for one call that gross hypocrisy: no wonder thoughtful people despise=20
churches for such =91selective indignation=92. [1]
In my work as a counselor-of-clergy (and others) over the past 25 years,=20
theological and pastoral issues surrounding the complexities of this=20
subject have come up hundreds of times. It=92s currently the # 1=20
issue-of-contention in churches around the world. Here are just two very=20
common cries-from-the-heart I hear regularly:
=95 =91Rowland, I want to be faithful to the Scriptures, but when I couns=
el=20
homosexuals pastorally my =93proof-texting=94 approach isn=92t working. W=
hen=20
asked what my position is I=92ve used the old mantra about =91hating the =
sin=20
and loving the sinner=92 but the response is always =91But then why don=92=
t I=20
*feel* loved by people who say that?=92
=95 Or: =91I=92m nineteen, and have been sent to you by my pastor and par=
ents.=20
My father is an elder in the church I=92ve attended all my life. Last=20
month I finally =91came out=92 and told my family I=92m gay. I think I=92=
ve=20
always been that way, I didn=92t choose to be erotically attracted to=20
other guys, but women just don=92t turn me on at all. I=92m a committed=20
Christian and want to be faithful to God=92s Word, but this whole thing i=
s=20
tearing me apart. I=92ve recently heard of two young people like me who=92=
ve=20
committed suicide because they couldn=92t cope with the negative response=
s=20
they got when they came out=85 What am I to do?=92
=91Sometimes I feel like the most liberal person among conservatives; and=
=20
sometimes like the most conservative among liberals. How am I to fit=20
together my religious past with my spiritual present?=92 (Philip Yancey [=
2])
I can relate to that. Theologically, I=92m evangelical in roughly the sam=
e=20
way Bishop N T Wright is: =91I believe in the authority of Scripture. I=20
believe in the appropriate sub-authority of tradition =96 respecting the=20
wisdom of the church as it has wrestled with issues. But I also believe=20
passionately in the importance of reason=85 =91 [3] .
(An important little digression. A woman parishioner was married to a=20
diagnosed psychopath, who beat her and her children, sometimes to the=20
point of their being hospitalized. I talked with them both, and he=20
denied it all. Eventually, she said =91I can=92t stay: I can cope but I=20
don=92t want to bring up my children in this fearful violent home.=92 I=20
agreed with her, and eventually she divorced her husband. By the way, he=20
had a gun, and threatened to shoot me. Question: on what grounds did I=20
have the authority to encourage her? The Bible? Not on its own: there=92s=
=20
no =91exception clause=92 in terms of divorce for domestic violence, only=
=20
for adultery. Tradition? No: the church has been predominantly=20
patriarchal. Reason? Well, yes, but sanctified by grace. I did what I=20
believe Jesus would have done. The majority of Christians =96 even=20
conservative Christians these days =96 agree with that approach in this=20
sort of situation. Keep this analogy in mind as we discuss this other=20
great paradigm-shift).
Re homosexuality, Wright goes on to say: =91The more I=92ve been on the e=
dge=20
of the debates the more I=92m aware of the complexity of the issues=85=92=
=20
which is why, he says, he hasn=92t (yet) published anything substantive o=
n=20
the subject. [4] I=92m also not ready to write a major piece on this=20
topic, so my approach here will have a tentative flavour about it.
However, when I read the Australian Evangelical Alliance=92s Beyond=20
Stereotypes I realize that I=92m on the progressive end of the evangelica=
l=20
spectrum. I was for some years a member of the Council of the Victorian=20
Evangelical Alliance, and was invited in the 1980s to be Australian=20
national director for the EA. I know most of the people on this working=20
group - a couple are close/good friends. They have done a good job -=20
over three years - to produce this 108-page study-guide which, as far as=20
it goes, is thorough, readable and irenic.
=91Evangelical=92 clergy/pastors/scholars can *very roughly* be categoriz=
ed=20
four ways. Judgmental fundamentalists tell me =91I preach the Word. I=20
don=92t compromise. It=92s then up to individuals to respond or not: that=
=92s=20
their choice.=92 (Crazies in this group =96 like the Westboro Baptist Chu=
rch=20
people =96 hold up placards at gays=92 funerals proclaiming =91God hates=20
fags=92). Conservative Evangelicals: =91Scripture is clear: even though a=
=20
homosexual=92s orientation might not be *chosen*, their only life-choice=20
is to be celibate.=92 Progressive Evangelicals tend to identify with Tony=
=20
Campolo=92s well-known advice (paraphrased): =91Even if our approach is t=
o=20
affirm the authority of Scripture, we must do more than simply exhort=20
these people to be celibate.=92 More radical Evangelicals: =91The Bible h=
as=20
to be interpreted in its socio-cultural context. The same-sex liaisons=20
behind the biblical prohibitions related either to exploitative sex or=20
sexual rites in pagan religious contexts. A homosexual =91orientation=92 =
as=20
such wasn=92t known back then=85=92
More...http://victoriaconcordiacrescit.blogspot.com/
Shalom/Salaam/Pax! Rowland Croucher
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/
Justice for Dawn Rowan - http://dawnrowansaga.blogspot.com/
Evangelical Alliance Working Group on Human Sexuality), Australian=20
Evangelical Alliance, 2009, 108 pages.
My thesis: Evangelicals who believe in =91the supreme authority of the=20
Scriptures=92 have come a long way in terms of freedom for slaves,=20
equality for women, and grace for the divorced, and are now on a similar=20
journey as they relate to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT)=20
people=85
Interviewer (to Evangelical Church Leader): Remember when, just a couple=20
of generations ago, we used to fight about Christians not dancing, not=20
drinking alcohol, not remarrying after divorce, not working on=20
Sabbath/Sunday, not giving leadership roles to women etc.? What=92s the=20
current situation?
Evangelical Church Leader: Wow, yes, times have changed haven=92t they?=20
Significant paradigm shifts have occurred in all these areas =96 and=20
others. Now we allow divorced people to be leaders, even pastors; now=20
many Christians drink alcohol =96 hopefully in moderation; these days we=20
can cope with whatever people do on Sundays (they can even enjoy=20
themselves!); and yes, we have women in leadership at every level in our=20
denomination. (And once we could make an excellent case from the Bible=20
against these positions).
I: OK let=92s talk about sex. In your evangelical tradition, what=92s=20
prohibited?
ECL: That=92s simple, really: no sex before marriage, no adultery after=20
marriage, no sex between people of the same gender.
I: So fornication, adultery, homosexual sex are out. Which is worse of=20
these three areas of sinfulness?
ECL: They=92re all equally sinful.
I: Are they? Has your denomination had a task-force on homosexuality?
ECL: Yes, every denomination has.
I: On adultery?
ECL: No, we leave discipline in that area to local churches, unless=20
pastors are involved, and they=92re disciplined according to best-practic=
e=20
protocols=85
I: Fornication?
ECL: Our pastors preach against it, and do pre-marriage counseling in=20
this area, and that=92s about it.
I: Do you know the incidence of church members (especially young people)=20
who marry in your churches who=92ve had sexual intercourse before their=20
wedding-day?
ECL: No, but I guess it would be a majority=85
I: Not only is it a majority, but according to surveys among pastors who=20
really know their people, it=92s somewhere between 70-90% in mainline=20
evangelical churches in Western countries. Now, if all three areas of=20
=91sexual sinfulness=92 are to attract attention/discipline, wouldn=92t y=
ou=20
think that area would too?
ECL: Sure, when you put it like that.
I: But it doesn=92t eh? Why is that?
ECL: I frankly don=92t know.
I: I=92ll tell you. The rationale is not theological but personal =96=20
they=92re our children! The problem is not what we believe, but what the=20
Chinese call =91face=92!
I for one call that gross hypocrisy: no wonder thoughtful people despise=20
churches for such =91selective indignation=92. [1]
In my work as a counselor-of-clergy (and others) over the past 25 years,=20
theological and pastoral issues surrounding the complexities of this=20
subject have come up hundreds of times. It=92s currently the # 1=20
issue-of-contention in churches around the world. Here are just two very=20
common cries-from-the-heart I hear regularly:
=95 =91Rowland, I want to be faithful to the Scriptures, but when I couns=
el=20
homosexuals pastorally my =93proof-texting=94 approach isn=92t working. W=
hen=20
asked what my position is I=92ve used the old mantra about =91hating the =
sin=20
and loving the sinner=92 but the response is always =91But then why don=92=
t I=20
*feel* loved by people who say that?=92
=95 Or: =91I=92m nineteen, and have been sent to you by my pastor and par=
ents.=20
My father is an elder in the church I=92ve attended all my life. Last=20
month I finally =91came out=92 and told my family I=92m gay. I think I=92=
ve=20
always been that way, I didn=92t choose to be erotically attracted to=20
other guys, but women just don=92t turn me on at all. I=92m a committed=20
Christian and want to be faithful to God=92s Word, but this whole thing i=
s=20
tearing me apart. I=92ve recently heard of two young people like me who=92=
ve=20
committed suicide because they couldn=92t cope with the negative response=
s=20
they got when they came out=85 What am I to do?=92
=91Sometimes I feel like the most liberal person among conservatives; and=
=20
sometimes like the most conservative among liberals. How am I to fit=20
together my religious past with my spiritual present?=92 (Philip Yancey [=
2])
I can relate to that. Theologically, I=92m evangelical in roughly the sam=
e=20
way Bishop N T Wright is: =91I believe in the authority of Scripture. I=20
believe in the appropriate sub-authority of tradition =96 respecting the=20
wisdom of the church as it has wrestled with issues. But I also believe=20
passionately in the importance of reason=85 =91 [3] .
(An important little digression. A woman parishioner was married to a=20
diagnosed psychopath, who beat her and her children, sometimes to the=20
point of their being hospitalized. I talked with them both, and he=20
denied it all. Eventually, she said =91I can=92t stay: I can cope but I=20
don=92t want to bring up my children in this fearful violent home.=92 I=20
agreed with her, and eventually she divorced her husband. By the way, he=20
had a gun, and threatened to shoot me. Question: on what grounds did I=20
have the authority to encourage her? The Bible? Not on its own: there=92s=
=20
no =91exception clause=92 in terms of divorce for domestic violence, only=
=20
for adultery. Tradition? No: the church has been predominantly=20
patriarchal. Reason? Well, yes, but sanctified by grace. I did what I=20
believe Jesus would have done. The majority of Christians =96 even=20
conservative Christians these days =96 agree with that approach in this=20
sort of situation. Keep this analogy in mind as we discuss this other=20
great paradigm-shift).
Re homosexuality, Wright goes on to say: =91The more I=92ve been on the e=
dge=20
of the debates the more I=92m aware of the complexity of the issues=85=92=
=20
which is why, he says, he hasn=92t (yet) published anything substantive o=
n=20
the subject. [4] I=92m also not ready to write a major piece on this=20
topic, so my approach here will have a tentative flavour about it.
However, when I read the Australian Evangelical Alliance=92s Beyond=20
Stereotypes I realize that I=92m on the progressive end of the evangelica=
l=20
spectrum. I was for some years a member of the Council of the Victorian=20
Evangelical Alliance, and was invited in the 1980s to be Australian=20
national director for the EA. I know most of the people on this working=20
group - a couple are close/good friends. They have done a good job -=20
over three years - to produce this 108-page study-guide which, as far as=20
it goes, is thorough, readable and irenic.
=91Evangelical=92 clergy/pastors/scholars can *very roughly* be categoriz=
ed=20
four ways. Judgmental fundamentalists tell me =91I preach the Word. I=20
don=92t compromise. It=92s then up to individuals to respond or not: that=
=92s=20
their choice.=92 (Crazies in this group =96 like the Westboro Baptist Chu=
rch=20
people =96 hold up placards at gays=92 funerals proclaiming =91God hates=20
fags=92). Conservative Evangelicals: =91Scripture is clear: even though a=
=20
homosexual=92s orientation might not be *chosen*, their only life-choice=20
is to be celibate.=92 Progressive Evangelicals tend to identify with Tony=
=20
Campolo=92s well-known advice (paraphrased): =91Even if our approach is t=
o=20
affirm the authority of Scripture, we must do more than simply exhort=20
these people to be celibate.=92 More radical Evangelicals: =91The Bible h=
as=20
to be interpreted in its socio-cultural context. The same-sex liaisons=20
behind the biblical prohibitions related either to exploitative sex or=20
sexual rites in pagan religious contexts. A homosexual =91orientation=92 =
as=20
such wasn=92t known back then=85=92
More...http://victoriaconcordiacrescit.blogspot.com/
Shalom/Salaam/Pax! Rowland Croucher
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/
Justice for Dawn Rowan - http://dawnrowansaga.blogspot.com/