Discussion:
Experiences with God
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Jacob
2007-05-08 00:34:53 UTC
Permalink
One of the great things about God is His diversity. No two things He
has created are identical, and He also employs variety in dealing with
people. We people tend to think that the way we have experienced God
is the right way and that everyone should conform to it. We also
expect that God should deal with us in the same way He has dealt with
someone we admire. God surprises us both ways, and continues to be
sovereign!

The Bible mentions those who experienced great miracles from His hands
through faith, and others who did not receive the miracles they hoped
for but held on to God in faith in spite of that (He.11). Which group
was greater? I believe it was a sovereign choice of God and neither
group had anything to boast about. It is natural that those who have
experienced miracles tend to look down on others who have 'not been so
favoured!' But that is a misunderstanding of God's ways.

Those who speak in tongues, those who have seen visions or dreams or
received miraculous answers to prayer or supernatural guidance, those
who have been miraculously healed, etc. - all tend to look down on
those who have not had such experiences. God may speak to us through a
vision or dream, but He may also speak to us though His word or
directly in our heart. Can we choose which way we would like to hear
Him?

Coming to personal experiences with God, have we all had similar
experiences? Not at all! Some have come to know God after terrible
bondages of sin, and others have come to know their sinfulness in a
slower manner. Some have had dramatic conversions and others seem to
have had a comparatively smooth walk into God's kingdom. Some have
been drawn to God after experiencing miracles, and others have come to
Him because they are convinced of His truths. Some have learned to
lean on God because of their problems, and others have so much time
and opportunity to travel around and minister to others. Some have
learned wisdom through study, and others through their mistakes. Some
have received miraculous intervention from God in their problems, and
others are struggling without being able to see the end ahead.

Those who are in a relatively comfortable position tend to judge those
who are having problems as those who do not have enough faith, who
must be having some secret sin in their lives or those who have some
generational (or ancestral) curses on them! How mean! If we can't help
them, at least let's stop making things more difficult for them.

O that we had a larger heart, to be understand more of God's diversity
and to be more compassionate and accepting towards people who are
different from us and whose lot in life is different from ours! (Ep.
1:18,19).
B.G. Kent
2007-05-10 00:40:51 UTC
Permalink
writing to you as well because this probably won't be allowed..but
thankyou. This is a very loving and inclusive post that you have made. I
feel that God is a God for all..not just some and that even though we
may take another path...all of our paths do lead to the same destination
if love of God is in our hearts...perhaps even if it isn't.

Blessings
Bren


On Tue, 8 May
Post by Jacob
One of the great things about God is His diversity. No two things He
has created are identical, and He also employs variety in dealing with
people. We people tend to think that the way we have experienced God
is the right way and that everyone should conform to it. We also
expect that God should deal with us in the same way He has dealt with
someone we admire. God surprises us both ways, and continues to be
sovereign!
...




****************************************

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not
believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in
your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the
authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions
because they have been handed down for many generations. But after
observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with
reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then
accept it and live up to it"
- Siddhartha Gautama -

ps. "don't even believe this because it is written down in a religious
book". Brenda K.
****************************************
l***@hotmail.com
2007-05-11 04:18:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
- Siddhartha Gautama -
Brenda, this is a Christian NG, not a pantheistic group.
l***@hotmail.com
2007-05-11 04:18:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jacob
One of the great things about God is His diversity. No two things He
has created are identical, and He also employs variety in dealing with
people. We people tend to think that the way we have experienced God
is the right way and that everyone should conform to it.
But this is not to confuse the issue of doctrine. Biblical doctrine
is not
open to "opinions." God, if He truly conforms to the definition of
capital
"G", God, is TRUTH. Truth is absolute and has no relationship with
what philosophical relativism progresses (as your thesis amends). For
instance, if He states, "I AM, The Way, The Truth, and The Life," we
must accept what He declares as having true content or we must
dismiss it. There is no middle ground afforded. In this statement,
in
the Greek He is emphatic to the exclusivity of what He is declaring by
the use of the definite article before an already definitive noun.
And if
that were not substantial enough on its own, He uses the oriental
method of augmenting the statement with its negative counter part-
"No man comes unto the Father by [by means of, through] Me."
Hence there is but one way to stand accepted before the Throne of
God, and that is through the Person and the Work of Christ Jesus.
Post by Jacob
We also
expect that God should deal with us in the same way He has dealt with
someone we admire. God surprises us both ways, and continues to be
sovereign!
1 Cor. 10:6 Now these things happened as examples for us. . . .

Certainly one is called to a personal relationship with God but that
does
not mean to say that one's relationship with God is relativistic in
nature.
Throughout scripture declarations are made as to exactly how men are
to come before Him, certain prerequisits, if you will. There is a
suppositional thought which underlies all that you have written here
which tends to discount the absolute sovereignty of God that you
just above refer to.
Post by Jacob
The Bible mentions those who experienced great miracles from His hands
through faith, and others who did not receive the miracles they hoped
for but held on to God in faith in spite of that (He.11). Which group
was greater? I believe it was a sovereign choice of God and neither
group had anything to boast about. It is natural that those who have
experienced miracles tend to look down on others who have 'not been so
favoured!' But that is a misunderstanding of God's ways.
Yet according to Heb 1:1,2, "signs" or "miracles" have ceased, at
least
during this dispensation of the Church Age. "Signs" were always given
to the Jews, not to the Church. In the first generation of the
Church, these
"signs" were indicators to the unbelieving Jewish community that God
was
now authenticating the Church era because of their rejection of the
Messiah
and His offering of the kingdom.
Post by Jacob
Those who speak in tongues, those who have seen visions or dreams or
received miraculous answers to prayer or supernatural guidance, those
who have been miraculously healed, etc. - all tend to look down on
those who have not had such experiences.
I'm not discounting this fact. It tends to become a new, well
cultivated,
seed bed of pride. However, there is no mandate for such experiences
for
the Christian. Heb 1 is declaration that these things are not part of
the
Church experience. We are called to a life of faith, not sight or
experience.
Post by Jacob
God may speak to us through a
vision or dream, but He may also speak to us though His word or
directly in our heart. Can we choose which way we would like to hear
Him?
The Reformers cry was, "sola scriptura" because as soon as you let in
anyother authoritative, the Word of God becomes secondary and
necessarily
regulated by that secondary, be it a "tradition" or be it a "vision"
etc. God
has spoken to us in propositional truth, the written Word. That alone
is our strength and guide through which the indwelling Spirit speaks
to us
the will of God.
Post by Jacob
Coming to personal experiences with God, have we all had similar
experiences? Not at all! Some have come to know God after terrible
bondages of sin, and others have come to know their sinfulness in a
slower manner. Some have had dramatic conversions and others seem to
have had a comparatively smooth walk into God's kingdom. Some have
been drawn to God after experiencing miracles, and others have come to
Him because they are convinced of His truths. Some have learned to
lean on God because of their problems, and others have so much time
and opportunity to travel around and minister to others. Some have
learned wisdom through study, and others through their mistakes. Some
have received miraculous intervention from God in their problems, and
others are struggling without being able to see the end ahead.
Those who are in a relatively comfortable position tend to judge those
who are having problems as those who do not have enough faith, who
must be having some secret sin in their lives or those who have some
generational (or ancestral) curses on them! How mean! If we can't help
them, at least let's stop making things more difficult for them.
O that we had a larger heart, to be understand more of God's diversity
and to be more compassionate and accepting towards people who are
different from us and whose lot in life is different from ours! (Ep.
1:18,19).
Amen! But as an "elder", I guard necessarily against subjectivism.
We
are called to "test the spirits" but how can one do this if one does
not
have a "sure witness" to the Truth? If you have not sure means of
verification you in turn have no safeguard against error. And this
not
the way of the God of the bible. His is not a "god of confusion" is
He?
In the advent of God in the Person of Jesus Christ, we are given a
face-to-face factoid that God speaks didactically and in propositional
form. After all, is He not also the creator of language and
communication?
Is He not in Himself, the Tri-Unity of the Godhead, the very basis for
interpersonal communication? It is not "I feel", "I opinionate" but
rather,
"I write these things that you may know...."
Jacob
2007-05-13 23:50:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Yet according to Heb 1:1,2, "signs" or "miracles" have ceased, at
least
during this dispensation of the Church Age.
Actually Heb.1:1,2 says nothing about signs or miracles but about how
now God has spoke to us through His Son. When the Son was taken up, He
sent the Holy Spirit, along with what are known as spiritual gifts,
and then it was that the church was born. The church (at least some
portion of it) has always till now exercised the gifts of the Spirit.
Some other part of the church says they have ceased. This controversy
is quite old, and I don't want to enter into it here. I believe in the
gifts and in exercising them.

Jacob

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