Discussion:
if Knowledge be Wisdom
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curmudgeon
2008-06-25 16:18:09 UTC
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HOSEA 4:6a NKJV
6a. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge

People wonder why Christians experience so much trouble in life.
The reason, according to the Bible, is lack of knowledge.

The Bible tells us the Devil is out to destroy us,
but it also makes clear that we can overcome his attacks.
The real problem lies with our ignorance.

Real knowledge produces faith.
When we really know something, we have faith in it.
Then we will act on that knowledge.



*curmudgeon*
"The best read illiterate in the country"
d***@aol.com
2008-06-27 01:08:15 UTC
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Post by curmudgeon
HOSEA 4:6a NKJV
6a. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge
People wonder why Christians experience so much trouble in life.
The reason, according to the Bible, is lack of knowledge.
Not the only reason.. the world hates us, as it hated Jesus.
Bad things happened to Him his whole life, was he ignorant?

God doesn't always sheild us from the bad things that happen, but he
gives us peace concerning them. He did not shield his apostles or
grant them worldly treasure, they had something worth a good deal
more.

Daryl
R.A. Nagy
2008-06-27 01:08:16 UTC
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Post by curmudgeon
HOSEA 4:6a NKJV
6a. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge
People wonder why Christians experience so much trouble in life.
The reason, according to the Bible, is lack of knowledge.
The Bible tells us the Devil is out to destroy us,
but it also makes clear that we can overcome his attacks.
The real problem lies with our ignorance.
Real knowledge produces faith.
When we really know something, we have faith in it.
Then we will act on that knowledge.
*curmudgeon*
"The best read illiterate in the country"
Please forgive an observation here, but Jesus had a lot of knowledge. He had
a lot of trouble, too.

Same with the Apostles, Adam, Enoch, and Job.

IMO the "Refiner's Fire" that is used to refine believers has little to do
with comfort and ease. The root of disciple, after all, is discipline.

I suppose to agree with what you say - suffering must be a lot like a bell
curve. At one end we have not enough understanding to do the works required.
At the other, we grow to have callings from God that can get us into a lot
of trouble?

Perhaps the cycle goes something like this:

(1) Real faith produces real works. (learning is a work, too :)
(2) Real works produce knowledge.
(3) Knowledge then makes our faith obsolete... for then we know, nothing
doubting. We need have faith no more?
(4) Hence many are called, but few are chosen? (e.g. The parable of the 12
virgins)

Sincerely,

R. A. Nagy
Author, "An Interview with a Saint"
http://www.SaintBook.org
l***@hotmail.com
2008-06-27 01:08:16 UTC
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Post by curmudgeon
HOSEA 4:6a NKJV
6a. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge
People wonder why Christians experience so much trouble in life.
The reason, according to the Bible, is lack of knowledge.
da `at is one of about 8 Hebrew words that are generally translated
into some form of the English "knowledge." It is a very general
term which tends to allude to an experimental or personal
understanding as in Prov 24:5. However, when we look at
other occurrences, it is used in a more specific way as in Ex 31:3.

da `at is also used when speaking of God's own knowledge
and therefore, has a definitive relational aspect when an
individual is brought along side. It is nothing less than
"special" as opposed to "general" revelation from God
Himself.

This brings in the ethical aspect of the word for it is employed
by Moses in Gen 2:9 & 17. It was moral cognitive
consciousness.

In Hosea it has a prophetic distinctive as being of the
"knowledge of God" (4:1, 6; 6:6) which is gained by
either reflection upon or personal experience of one
of those very special historical moments/events where
God choses to reveal Himself to a specific individual
at a specific moment in history such as with Abram
and Moses.

The Theo Word Book of the OT states:

"Knowledge of God" appears in parallel with "fear of
the YHWH" as a description of true religion. The man
who has a right relation with God confesses Him and
obeys Him. To do justice and righteousness and to judge
the cause of the poor and the needy is to know God
(Jere 22:15-16). On the other hand, where there is no
knowledge of God there is swearing, lying, killing,
stealing, committing adultery, and breaking all bonds
(Hos 4:1-2). Such will bring destruction upon a people
(Hos 4:6; cf Isa 5:13). Konwledge of God is more pleasing
to Him than sacrifice (Hos 6:6). The prophetic view
of the messianic age is of a time in which the
knowledge of God covers the earth as water covers the
sea. (Hab 2:14; cf Isa 11:9)" [p 367]
Post by curmudgeon
The Bible tells us the Devil is out to destroy us,
but it also makes clear that we can overcome his attacks.
The real problem lies with our ignorance.
Ignorance of what? Is a learned theologian thus more
holy than the common layman- always?
Post by curmudgeon
Real knowledge produces faith.
Again, what is your definition of "real knowledge" and
what exactly is its relationship to faith?
Post by curmudgeon
When we really know something, we have faith in it.
And those who strap explosives on their bodies and
step onto a bus and pull the string have a real faith
that they just inherited 22 virgins.
Post by curmudgeon
Then we will act on that knowledge.
As Ryle states, "You must believe before you do. If
men do nothing in religion, it is because they do not
believe." I could be Anglican once again if I could
find another Bishop Ryle.

My intention here is not to dismiss anything that you
have written. I merely wish that you explore it a bit
further and make it more approachable and useable
by the reader.

Basically you have approached the doctrine of
sanctification. Unlike justification, sanctification in
not imputed - it is progressive in nature. And, it wise
to suggest that one begin "low" with the aim of the
achievement of the "holiday glory." As Paul put it,
"from strength to strength" or from "faith to faith." One
must first begin his journey by recognizing and then
dealing with known sin in his life. There is no
extension beyond this. Light rejected only brings
further darkness. When the grieving of the Spirit becomes
not only cognitive but a burden to us, then and only
then are we on the path to "knowledge."

Personally I feel that the greater part of "so called"
Christianity today, which outrightly you cannot
positively declare as being unsound is yet a couple
of cans short of a six pack. It has something to do
with Christ, with grace, with faith and repentance but
then again, it aint exactly the "real thing" when brought
along side of sound Biblical exegesis. We have too
many wives of Lot sitting in our congregations, week
after week, year after year, never fully directing their
thoughts, let alone their steps, toward heaven in any
complete fashion. We're like a pack of skunks who's
offensive smell is lost on one another who are not
offensive to one another because the reference point
is not the Christ of the Bible but the "well I'm certainly
better than that chap" standard.

This is the deceitfulness of sin. We minimize its guilt
by quipping such things as this or as "it's just this
once," or "It's such a small thing. Surely a loving God
isn't going to be so extreme as to mark it down." "Hey,
everyone else is doing it" . . . "as in the days of Noah!"
Or, "Where's the harm in it. I'm not harming anyone."
Deceitfulness of sin. We've lost the grandeur of God's
holiness. We have emphasized the love of God to
such an extent as to over shadow His other attributes,
or at least making love the governing attribute. But
my bible only triplicates one attribute, "Holy, Holy,
Holy, Lord God almighty."

Heb 3:13 "Exhort one another daily. . . lest any be
hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."
R.A. Nagy
2008-06-28 15:38:34 UTC
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Post by d***@aol.com
God doesn't always sheild us from the bad things that happen, but he
gives us peace concerning them. He did not shield his apostles or
grant them worldly treasure, they had something worth a good deal
more.
Peace is the gift of God - Not ease, comfort, and prosperity, but the "peace
that passes understanding."

The great gift Jesus gave the disciples allows us to be at peace, even while
bad things are happening. Along with the Holy Ghost, that, above all, is the
sure promise for the true disciple of Jesus. "My peace I give unto you - not
as the world givith, give I unto you." (sic.)

"The righteous shall not fear."

Thanks,

R.A. Nagy
http://SaintBook.org

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