"Let There Be Light"

[Elder(:)Child]

"Let There Be Light"

"In The Beginning" The Creator said, "Let There Be Light, and there
was Light"

"Let There Be Light"....... "The Beginning of The Creation of YAH"

Revelations 3:14 testifies that The Messiah, was "The Beginning of the
Creation of YAH(Father of All)"! And The Messiah testified that His
Elohim(YAH) and Father is The Elohim and Father of His Brethren. (John
20:17)

It is very important to both know and experience The Messiah as He was
and is, and also to know the "glory He had with Our Father" before He
was born in "the likeness of sinful flesh". (John 17:5, Rom 8:3)

First, let me simply state that i believe the "catholic" and
"christian" systems of religious theo'ry'logy are Anti-Messiah for
they either "imag"ine a 'messiah' who is one-head of a three-headed
pagan "god", or a 'messiah' who is "god", or a 'messiah' who is but an
exalted messenger(angel) or prophet.

It is needful to believe that The Messiah was, is and always will be
"The Son of The Living Elohim", and that there is but "One Elohim, WHO
is Father of ALL". (Mat 16:16, Eph 4:6) Once again, The Messiah
testified that His Elohim(YAH) and His Father, is also The Elohim and
Father of His Brethren. (John 20:17)

"Let There Be Light"

The Messiah simply testified in John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify
Me with YOUR own self with the glory that I had with YOU before the
world began".

Prior to that testimony The Messiah testified, "Yet a little while is
The Light with you. Walk while you have The Light, lest darkness comes
upon you: for he that walks in darkness does not know where he goes.
While you have Light, believe in The Light, that you may be the
children of Light." (John 12:35-36)

And the apostle John testified: "In the beginning was the Word, and
the Word was with YAH, and The Word was(not is) YAH. The same was in
the beginning with YAH. All things were made by Him; and without Him
was not any thing made that was made. In Him was life; and the life
was the Light of men. And The Light shined in darkness; and the
darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from Elohim, whose
name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of The
Light, that all men through Him might believe. He(John the baptist)
was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That
was the True Light, which enlightens every man that comes into the
world. He(The Messiah) was in the world, and the world was made by
Him, and the world knew Him not. He came unto His own, and His own
received Him not. But as many as received Him, to them gave He power
to become the sons of Elohim, even to them that believe on His name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of
the will of man, but of "The Only True Elohim"." (John 1:1-13)

And the apostle John testified in John 3:17-21: "For Our Father sent
not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world
through Him might be saved. He that believes on Him is not condemned:
but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not
believed in the name of the only begotten Son of YAH(Our Father). And
this is the condemnation, that Light is come into the world, and men
loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were evil. For
every one that does evil hates The Light, neither comes to The Light,
lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does Truth comes to The
Light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in
YAH(Our Father)."

In John 12:34 the people asked, "Who is this Son of man? Then in John
12:35-36, "The Messiah said unto them, yet a little while is The Light
with you. Walk while you have The Light, lest darkness come upon you:
for he that walks in darkness does not know where he goes. While you
have Light, believe in The Light, that you may be the children of
Light. The Messiah spoke these things, and departed, and hid Himself
from them."

Simply, "In The Beginning" The Only True Elohim spoke The Word, "Let
There Be Light", "And there was Light"! "And there was
evening(darkness) and there was morning(Light), First Day". (Gen 1:5)
Certainly such "Light" was not "natural" light, for "natural" light,
the sun, moon, and stars were not created until the "fourth day". (Gen
1:14-19)

"In the beginning", "The First Day", The Father of All created "The
Light", without which Creation and Life, as we now know and experience
it, could not have been.

The First Day, "The Light", The Messiah, "The beginning of the
Creation of YAH(HE WHO is The Only True Elohim and Father of ALL)"!
(Gen 1:3, Rev 3:14, John 17:3, Eph 4:6)

And "The Only True Elohim" created all "things" by, through, and for
"The Light", The Messiah, "The Son of The Living Elohim" and "Son of
man". (Col 1:15, Eph 3:9, Mat 16:16, Mat 12:32)

And "The True Light which enlightens every man coming into the world",
was born as a child destined to be The Messiah. (John 1:9, Mat 1:21)

The Messiah, "The Light of the world". (John 8:12, 9:5)

The Messiah, "The firstborn of every creature(all creation)". (Col
1:15)

The Messiah,"The firstborn among many brethren". (Rom 8:29)

The Messiah, "The firstborn from among the dead". (Col 1:18)

The Messiah, "A servant of The Only True Elohim". (Isa 42:1-7)

The Messiah, "The Lamb of YAH". (John 1:29,36)

Once again: "In The Beginning" Our Father, "The Only True Elohim"
spoke: "Let there be Light, and there was Light"! The Messiah, "The
Beginning of the Creation of YAH", "the firstborn of every
creature(all creation)". (Gen 1:3, John 17:3, Rev 3:14, Col 1:15)

HalleluYAH!

The Messiah, The Creation of "The Only True Elohim, Father of ALL"!
(Rev 3:14)

The Messiah, "made so much better than the angels"! (Heb 1:4)

The Messiah, "The Light of the world"! (John 8:12, 9:5)

Paul experienced "The Light " on the road to Damascus. "And it came to
pass, that, as I made my journey, and came near unto Damascus about
noontime, suddenly a great Light from Heaven shone round about me. And
I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul,
why do you persecute Me? And I answered, "Who are You, Master"? And He
said unto me, I am Yehowshuwa' (Yahshua) of Nazareth, Whom you
persecute. And they that were with me saw The Light, and were afraid;
but they did not hear the voice of Him that spoke to me. And I said,
"What shall I do, Master"? And He said unto me, arise and go into
Damascus, and there you shall be told all things which are appointed
for you to do. And when I could not see for the glory of that Light, I
was led by the hand into Damascus." (Acts 22:6-11)

Paul also testified, "At midday I saw in the way a Light from Heaven,
ABOVE THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE SUN, shining round about me and those who
journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a
voice speaking unto me, and saying in the HEBREW tongue, Saul, Saul,
why do you persecute Me? It is hard for you to kick against the
pricks." (The Messiah could not have told Paul, "I am jesus" for He
spoke in the "HEBREW tongue") (Acts 26:13-14)

And The Messiah, "The Light of the world", "The Lamb of YAH", is also
The Light of The New Heavenly Yerusalem! (Rev 21:22-23)

Sadly, those who "love this world and it's things" yet love darkness
more than The Light and they will abide in the darkness they loved
forever ;-( (1John 2:15, John 3:19-20)

Sadder yet, systems of religion that are of this world, such as
"catholicism", "christianity", "judaism", "islam",.etc., have so
perverted The Testimonies, that today, as in the yesterdays gone by,
"The Way of Truth is evil spoken of" because of their theo'ry'logical,
heretical doctrines ;-( Doctrines that are of men, and especially
those "imag"ined theo'ry'logical doctrines which seek to define The
Only True Elohim, Father of All. (2Peter 2:1-2)

All such doctrines are but the product of mankind's "imag"ination and
mankind's "imag"ination is destroying and perverting Creation(earth,
air, water, creatures, Truth, Love, Peace, Joy, Hope, .etc.)

Yes, sadly ;-( Creation is being destroyed by self-willed men who
could care less about that which is of Truth(What Is, Was, and always
Will Be), and care even less about those things which they can not
comprehend apart from their "natural" senses and mental processes ;-(

And Truth testifies, The Creator "will destroy those who destroy the
earth(HIS Creation)"(Rev 11:18).

Sadly, in this wicked world, those who seek profit will naturally
overcome those who do not ;-(

Yet, There Is Hope!

For Miracles do happen and Faith rejoices against theo'ry'logy(logic)
and profit(greed)!

Hope is there would be those who experience The Miracle that is
"receiving a love of The Truth" for they will "see" "The Light".
(2Thes 2:10, John 8:12, 9:5)

And they will receive peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that
is of this world, for they will clearly "see" that "The WHOLE world is
under the control of the evil one". (1John 5:19) And they will clearly
"see" things as they are and not as "imag"inative, world loving,
humans would have others believe them to be, for they will "see" The
Light that is The Messiah....... francisco

[Matthew Johnson]

[Have I seen the pattern right? They seem to always come up with a
post like this around Ephiphany!]

[todo: 1) consider either Theophylact on 17:5 or Aug on 14:28 for
"Except for your confusion" 2) remark on the irony that we _just_
celebrated the Incarnation, are about to celebrate the Trinitarian
Epiphany, and he comes up with this]

Post by Elder(:)Child
"Let There Be Light"

That would be a pleasant change from the darkness of your post!

Post by Elder(:)Child
"In The Beginning" The Creator said, "Let There Be Light, and there
was Light"
"Let There Be Light"....... "The Beginning of The Creation of YAH"
Revelations 3:14 testifies that The Messiah, was "The Beginning of the
Creation of YAH(Father of All)"!

What bizarre half-translation is this? What John _really_ wrote was:

KAI TWi AGGELWi THS EN LAODIKEIAi EKKLHSIAS GRAYON TADE LEGEI O AMHN O
MARTUS O PISTOS KAI ALHQINOS H ARXH THS KTISEWS TOU QEOU (Rev 3:14)

and a MUCH more faithful translation would be:

And to the angel of the Church in Laodikea write: "thus says the Amen,
the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the Creation of God".

Now note that just as Blessed Augustine said, "the beginning of the
road is not the road", so likewise here, "the _beginning_ of creation"
is not creation. So nice try, but despite your misquote, despite your
mis-translation, there is NOTHING in this passage that mandates that
Christ be a created being, NOTHING that mandates He be any less than
the only-begotten Son, begotten before all time as consubstantial to
the Father.

Post by Elder(:)Child
And The Messiah testified that His Elohim(YAH) and Father is The
Elohim and Father of His Brethren. (John 20:17)

Another bizarre half-translation! Except that now you are confusing
two different divine names, Yah and Elohim, _neither_ of which occur
in John 20:17.

Post by Elder(:)Child
It is very important to both know and experience The Messiah as He
was and is,

And that is _exactly_ why it is _so_ important to denounce, renounce
and abjure your denial of His divinity.

Post by Elder(:)Child
and also to know the "glory He had with Our Father" before He was
born in "the likeness of sinful flesh". (John 17:5, Rom 8:3)

How ironic that you should cite John 17:5 here! After all, it provides
the most _immediate_ and _direct_ refutation of your disastrously
_bad_ intepretation of Rev 3:14. For it says:

and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory
WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS MADE. (Joh 17:5 RSVA)
[capitalization mine]

How could you miss this? It _clearly_ shows that Christ had this glory
_before_ creation. But to have it, He had to _Himself_ exist before
creation. And this alone makes your interpretation of Rev 3:14
absolutely impossible.

Post by Elder(:)Child
First, let me simply state that i believe the "catholic" and
"christian" systems of religious theo'ry'logy are Anti-Messiah for
they either "imag"ine a 'messiah' who is one-head of a three-headed
pagan "god", or a 'messiah' who is "god", or a 'messiah' who is but
an exalted messenger(angel) or prophet.

No, they do _none_ of these things. Rather, as St. Basil so
brilliantly put it:

for we contemplate one image, as it were, expressed in the
unchangeability of Divinity, in God the Father and in God the
Only-Begotten. For the Son is in the Father, and the Father is in the
Son. For what the Father is, the Son is; and what the Son is, the
Father is. In this respect they are one. But by the distinction of
persons, they are one and one (NB: St. Basil refuses to allow addition
here!), but by the commonality of essence they are both one.
["To Amphilochius, on the Holy Spirit", Ch 18]
(for a more stilted translation, but of the whole letter, see
http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/basil_spiritu_18.html)

By resurrecting the old false charge of "three headed god", you are
proving yourself incompetent at reasonable discussion, and even _more_
incompetent at Christian theology! It is surely out of such gross
incompetence that you resort to such a "straw-man argument", one that
has failed time and time again for centuries.

Post by Elder(:)Child
It is needful to believe that The Messiah was, is and always will be
"The Son of The Living Elohim", and that there is but "One Elohim, WHO
is Father of ALL". (Mat 16:16, Eph 4:6) Once again, The Messiah
testified that His Elohim(YAH) and His Father, is also The Elohim and
Father of His Brethren. (John 20:17)

Except for your confusion of 'Elohim' and 'YAH', and except for your
false assumption of your distinction between Father and Son, there is
nothing here to contradict the life-saving doctrine of the
Trinity. What I mean is, the _verses_ you quote, when correctly
translated, do _not_ contradict the life-saving doctrine. But the
assumption you make in your paragraph certainly do.

But your omission is important too: we must not only believe he 'was',
but that he _always_ was "The Son of the Living God" (John 1:1-3, Joh
17:5).

Post by Elder(:)Child
"Let There Be Light"

In place of your darkness, the denial of teh divinely-revealed Trinity.

Post by Elder(:)Child
The Messiah simply testified in John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify
Me with YOUR own self with the glory that I had with YOU before the
world began".

And yet again, there is nothing to contradict Trinity here, either.

Post by Elder(:)Child
Prior to that testimony The Messiah testified, "Yet a little while is
The Light with you. Walk while you have The Light, lest darkness
comes upon you: for he that walks in darkness does not know where he
goes. While you have Light, believe in The Light, that you may be
the children of Light." (John 12:35-36)
And the apostle John testified: "In the beginning was the Word, and
the Word was with YAH, and The Word was(not is) YAH.

I always get suspicious when people feel the need to tamper with
Scripture by inserting their own parenthetical comments. And sure
enough, your poisoning the text with false dogma is a _perfect_
example of why we should all be so suspicious of it!

And yes, your parenthetical comment IS poison. For you are completely
misrepresenting the meaning of the imperfect (past tense) here. It it
past tense because the main verb is past tense. It does _NOT_ deny
that He still _is_ God, and in exactly the same sense as He was God in
the beginning.

On the contrary: the imperfect past tense refers to the _eternity_ of
His being: for when all of Creation was just beginning to be, He
already was.

Post by Elder(:)Child
The same was in the beginning with YAH. All things were made by Him;
and without Him was not any thing made that was made. In Him was
life; and the life was the Light of men. And The Light shined in
darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Which 'Him' do you think each occurrence of 'Him' in the above refer
to? Do you understand that each 'Him' must refer to the Son? And why
do you have 'shined' for a historical present tense? Since when does
this tense represent an aorist?

Post by Elder(:)Child
There was a man sent from Elohim,

This is, OF COURSE, an incorrect translation. 'Elohim' is a Hebrew
word, not a Greek one. John wrote in Greek. And no, you _cannot_ claim
to know that 'Elohim' is the equivalent he had in mind for the Greek
QEOS. The parallel with Gen 1:1 is strongly suggestive, but nothing
more.

Post by Elder(:)Child
whose name was John. The same came for a witness,

This is horribly stilted, and even to the point of being outright
incorrect. "For a witness" in Modern English does NOT mean the same
thing EIS MARTYRIAN meant in Koine Greek.

Post by Elder(:)Child
to bear witness of The Light, that all men through Him might believe.

All the more tragic, then, that you do not believe. And why did you
leave off a crucial part of the verse? It is not just "might believe",
but "might believe THROUGH HIM". Now which 'HIM' do you think he was
referring to? To the Light, or to John (the Baptist)?

Post by Elder(:)Child
He(John the baptist) was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness
of that Light. That was the True Light, which enlightens every man
that comes into the world. He(The Messiah) was in the world, and the
world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not. He came unto His
own, and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him, to
them gave He power to become the sons of Elohim,

That same mistranslation again!

Post by Elder(:)Child
even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood,
nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of "The
Only True Elohim"."

And that same mistranslation yet again!

Post by Elder(:)Child
(John 1:1-13)

Well, you got the verse numbers right at least;) But why aren't you
following the guidelines of the FAQ and Charter by including which
_tranlsation_ you cited?

Post by Elder(:)Child
And the apostle John testified in John 3:17-21: "For Our Father sent

Your translation just gets worse and worse! It is not "For Our
Father", but "For God".

How could you get this wrong?

Post by Elder(:)Child
not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world
through Him might be saved.

Wrong again! It is not just "might be saved", but "might be saved
THROUGH HIM". And to whom must 'HIM' refer to? To the Son, or to the
Father? Context supports what the grammar so strongly suggests: it
must refer to the Son.

Post by Elder(:)Child
but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not
believed in the name of the only begotten Son of YAH(Our Father).

Again, your translation just gets worse and worse! No, it does NOT say
"Son of YAH", nor does it say "Our Father". It says, "the Son of God".

Post by Elder(:)Child
And this is the condemnation, that Light is come into the world, and
men loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were
evil. For every one that does evil hates The Light, neither comes to
The Light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does Truth
comes to The Light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they
are wrought in YAH(Our Father)."

Again, your translation just gets worse and worse! No, it does NOT say
"YAH", nor does it say "Our Father". It says, "God".

Post by Elder(:)Child
In John 12:34 the people asked, "Who is this Son of man? Then in John
12:35-36, "The Messiah said unto them, yet a little while is The
Light with you. Walk while you have The Light, lest darkness come
upon you: for he that walks in darkness does not know where he
goes. While you have Light, believe in The Light, that you may be the
children of Light. The Messiah spoke these things, and departed, and
hid Himself from them."

SO why have you departed from The Light? Why are you inflicting
yourself with that deepest darkness, the denial of the Trinity?

Post by Elder(:)Child
Simply, "In The Beginning" The Only True Elohim spoke The Word, "Let
There Be Light", "And there was Light"! "And there was
evening(darkness) and there was morning(Light), First Day". (Gen 1:5)
Certainly such "Light" was not "natural" light, for "natural" light,
the sun, moon, and stars were not created until the "fourth
day". (Gen 1:14-19)

No, that does not follow. The light created in Genesis 1:1 is NOT the
Messiah, it is physical light. Light existed even before the sun, moon
and stars.

Post by Elder(:)Child
"In the beginning", "The First Day", The Father of All created "The
Light", without which Creation and Life, as we now know and
experience it, could not have been.

This is a classic and terrible error. But really, you are just
repeating yourself, you have not advanced any new evidence fo ryour
falsehoods, so I am snipping the rest of your post.

[snip]