Discussion:
Having, and getting more
(too old to reply)
Jacob
2007-05-29 02:36:07 UTC
Permalink
Jesus spoke about a sure way of getting more, which is quite unlike
what many Christians are being taught now a days. He said that those
who have will be given more, and from those don't have, even what they
have will be taken away! This is quoted five times in the four
gospels, three times in connection with the parable of the sower and
the different types of ground, and two times in relation to the
parable of the talents (Mt.13:12;25:29;Mk.4:25;Lk.8:18;Lk.19:26).

At first glance, this doesn't seem to make sense, giving to someone
who already has and taking away from someone who hardly has any. So we
conclude that Jesus meant something other than what appears on the
surface. He wasn't obviously talking about a business technique. He
wasn't echoing what many people think, that the rich are getting
richer and the poor poorer.

Of course, what Jesus meant is that if we are faithful with what we
have, we shall be entrusted with more, and that if we are unfaithful
with what we have, even what we have will be taken away.

Jesus was talking about more than money. We tend to think in terms of
money, wealth, what can give us a comfortable life, etc. Jesus said
that if we were faithful with money, He would grant us true riches (Lk.
16:11). True riches are what would be valuable in eternity, such as a
godly character, divine wisdom, usefulness to God and people in terms
of service, etc. If we demonstrate faithfulness in the little things
of life (Lk.16:10), God will reward us by entrusting to us more
responsibility, more fruitfulness and more usefulness.

In this sense all children of God are not equal. Even though all are
saved by grace through faith, God is not able to trust everyone with
the same level of responsibility. Some bear thirtyfold, some
fiftyfold, and some hundredfold fruit. On the other hand, some even
lose what they had already received from the Lord (e.g., anointing),
because of carelessness and unfaithfulness.

Is there any greater joy on earth than to be useful to the Lord and to
His people? Isn't this much more precious than silver or gold, or fame
or name? (1Pe.1:7). Why hanker after more money, a bigger house or
car, a greater name, etc.? When we learn to be more faithful, we get
nearer to God's heart, and there we can enjoy pleasures and treasures
that we cannot imagine elsewhere (Ps.16:11). Once we have tasted
something of this, we seek all the more for more of it.

Faithfulness is more that righteousness. By being righteous we do what
is right and avoid what is wrong. But by being faithful, we become
better stewards of God's gifts, whether it is time, money, talents, or
opportunities. Then our mind will be focussed on what God wants, what
would glorify God, what would delight His heart, etc., rather that
what we can get from Him. This is the life that would satisfy His
heart as well as ours.
B.G. Kent
2007-05-30 01:40:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jacob
wasn't echoing what many people think, that the rich are getting
richer and the poor poorer.
Of course, what Jesus meant is that if we are faithful with what we
have, we shall be entrusted with more, and that if we are unfaithful
with what we have, even what we have will be taken away.
B - Or that if we believe we are in abundance..we shall always be...and if
we believe we are in a debt ....we shall manifest that as well. That is
what I take from that.
I can't say what Jesus meant not having talked with him or even verified
that he actually said that though.

Bren
b***@dodo.com.au
2007-06-01 02:38:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by Jacob
wasn't echoing what many people think, that the rich are getting
richer and the poor poorer.
Of course, what Jesus meant is that if we are faithful with what we
have, we shall be entrusted with more, and that if we are unfaithful
with what we have, even what we have will be taken away.
B - Or that if we believe we are in abundance..we shall always be...and if
we believe we are in a debt ....we shall manifest that as well. That is
what I take from that.
I can't say what Jesus meant not having talked with him or even verified
that he actually said that though.
Bren
To some extent, this is behind the Catholic business of canonising
saints. It is clear that Christ was not talking about worldly goods,
since He was so sceptical about the value of worldly wealth throughout
his ministry. This is a far cry from the Prosperity Doctrine which
still seems to be alive and well in some circles.

In other words, if we are faithful in "small things" here and now, we
will be entrusted with "big things" later. Accordingly the Catholic
Church believes there are certain individuals who, by their exemplary
example in this life, have shown themselves worthy of "big things"
after death. No doubt God will be the ultimate judge of who deserves
what, but I sometimes wonder why Protestants are so keen to deny any
idea that illustrious servants of God cannot receive what might be
called positions of authority in heaven.

Otherwise the promis of "big things" becomes a mockery.
b***@dodo.com.au
2007-06-04 03:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by Jacob
wasn't echoing what many people think, that the rich are getting
richer and the poor poorer.
Of course, what Jesus meant is that if we are faithful with what we
have, we shall be entrusted with more, and that if we are unfaithful
with what we have, even what we have will be taken away.
B - Or that if we believe we are in abundance..we shall always be...and if
we believe we are in a debt ....we shall manifest that as well. That is
what I take from that.
I can't say what Jesus meant not having talked with him or even verified
that he actually said that though.
Bren
To some extent, this is behind the Catholic business of canonising
saints. It is clear that Christ was not talking about worldly goods,
since He was so sceptical about the value of worldly wealth throughout
his ministry. This is a far cry from the Prosperity Doctrine which
still seems to be alive and well in some circles.

In other words, if we are faithful in "small things" here and now, we
will be entrusted with "big things" later. Accordingly the Catholic
Church believes there are certain individuals who, by their exemplary
example in this life, have shown themselves worthy of "big things"
after death. No doubt God will be the ultimate judge of who deserves
what, but I sometimes wonder why Protestants are so keen to deny any
idea that illustrious servants of God cannot receive what might be
called positions of authority in heaven.

Otherwise the promis of "big things" becomes a mockery.
Matthew Johnson
2007-06-04 03:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@dodo.com.au
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by Jacob
wasn't echoing what many people think, that the rich are getting
richer and the poor poorer.
Of course, what Jesus meant is that if we are faithful with what we
have, we shall be entrusted with more, and that if we are unfaithful
with what we have, even what we have will be taken away.
B - Or that if we believe we are in abundance..we shall always be...and if
we believe we are in a debt ....we shall manifest that as well. That is
what I take from that.
I can't say what Jesus meant not having talked with him or even verified
that he actually said that though.
Bren
To some extent, this is behind the Catholic business of canonising
saints. It is clear that Christ was not talking about worldly goods,
since He was so sceptical about the value of worldly wealth throughout
his ministry.
Here in the US, where we have too many of these worldly goods and not enough
people to canonize, we call it 'canonizing', not 'canonising', and 'skepticism',
not 'sceptisism'. Not to see we see enough of either skepticism or scepticism in
this matter....
Post by b***@dodo.com.au
This is a far cry from the Prosperity Doctrine which
still seems to be alive and well in some circles.
Alive and well and dragging many to destruction. If only more people were
familiar with the traditional Orthodox/Catholic interpretation of Psa 73(72).
But as it is, too few are even familiar with the traditional _numbering_ of the
Psalms, much less the interpretation.

For the traditional interpretation is that it is about the pride of the rich,
how pride goes deep into their hearts ruining them and everything they do. It is
precisely when the Psalmist realizes this that he finds safety from the
temptation to be jealous of the rich.

[snip]
Post by b***@dodo.com.au
what, but I sometimes wonder why Protestants are so keen to deny any
idea that illustrious servants of God cannot receive what might be
called positions of authority in heaven.
I don't wonder; I always thought it was pretty clear. They have an extreme and
irrational fear of "merit theology". They learned this fear from Luther, and use
it as an excuse for many false dogmas, including both 'levelling' and anomianism
(although they never admit this).
Post by b***@dodo.com.au
Otherwise the promis of "big things" becomes a mockery.
--
-----------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
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