Discussion:
What's Occuring in Israel & the Rapture
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l***@hotmail.com
2006-07-17 17:05:13 UTC
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As a bible believing Christian, I cannot but be attentive to the
Israeli situation. However, I've lived long enough to know that one
can all to easily read into current events biblical prophecies.
Immediately I would say however, that the stage of prophetic events has
never been so completely set as it is today. However, Christians are
wrong to conclude that the Rapture of the Church inaugurates the
Tribulation.

There are several scriptural passages, both OT and NT, which disclose
the true designation as to the inauguration of Daniel's 70th week, and
that consistently has to do with what we
Christian's have come to call, the advent of the Antichrist.

The first passage which often comes to mind concerning this event is
Dan 9:24-27, when the prophet discloses that the 70 weeks are divided
with one week of years separated from the previous 69. The question
immediately in need of answering is "What is the one event which drop
kicks the remaining week into fulfillment?" Daniel answers that
question when he speaks of the "prince that shall come" (v 26) making a
7 year agreement/covenant with
national Israel.

Isa 28:14-22 support this analysis. Here God refers to those who make
this covenant as "scoffers" (v.14). In the verse immediately
following, God gives His reason for this characterization.

Is. 28:15 Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with death,
And with Sheol we have made a pact. The overwhelming scourge will not
reach us when it passes by, For we have made falsehood our refuge and
we have concealed ourselves with deception."

The leadership of Israel will enter into this agreement with the though
of obtain some measure of security and escape from "the overwhelming
scourge." The Hebrew word translated here as "overwhelming" or
"overflowing", when used symbolically, always refers to a militaristic
invasion. However, not all within Israel adhere to this covenant.

Is. 28:16 Therefore thus says the Lord God, "Behold, I am laying in
Zion a stone, a tested stone, A costly cornerstone for the foundation,
firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed.

Here, again, the believing remnant within Israel is distinguished from
the whole. The promise is that because of their continuation in their
belief that only God is their sure hope, they "will not be disturbed."
Coupled with the results of the making and the breaking of this peace
agreement, vs 17-22 reveals the true nature of the 70th week of Daniel.

Is. 28:17 "And I will make justice the measuring line, And
righteousness the level; Then hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters shall overflow the secret place.
Is. 28:18 "And your covenant with death shall be canceled, And your
pact with Sheol shall not stand; When the overwhelming scourge passes
through, Then you become its trampling place.
Is. 28:19 "As often as it passes through, it will seize you. For
morning after morning it will pass through, anytime during the day or
night. And it will be sheer terror to understand what it means."
Is. 28:20 The bed is too short on which to stretch out, And the blanket
is too small to wrap oneself in.
Is. 28:21 For the Lord will rise up as at Mount Perazim, He will be
stirred up as in the valley of Gibeon; To do His task, His unusual
task, And to work His work, His extraordinary work.
Is. 28:22 And now do not carry on as scoffers, Lest your fetters be
made stronger; For I have heard from the Lord God of hosts, of decisive
destruction on all the earth.

Also note the two terms here used to designate the "tribulation." 1)
"unusual task,, and 2) an "extraordinary work." It is "unusual" and
"extraordinary" in that a decree is issued, i.e. "decisive destruction
on all the earth."

Thus, the key result of the leadership making this covenant with the
"prince to come" is nothing less than the advent of the wrath of God.
Many, many passages describe not only the nature of this wrath, but
also its goal.

Zeph. 3:8 "Therefore, wait for Me," declares the Lord, "For the day
when I rise up to the prey. Indeed, My decision is to gather nations,
to assemble kingdoms, to pour out on them My indignation, all My
burning anger; for all the earth will be devoured by the fire of My
zeal.
Zeph. 3:9 "For then I will give to the peoples purified lips, that all
of them may call on the name of the Lord, to serve Him shoulder to
shoulder.
Zeph. 3:10 "From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, My
dispersed ones, will bring My offerings.
Zeph. 3:11 "In that day you will feel no shame because of all your
deeds by which you have rebelled against Me; for then I will remove
from your midst your proud, exulting ones, and you will never again be
haughty on My holy mountain.
Zeph. 3:12 "But I will leave among you a humble and lowly people, and
they will take refuge in the name of the Lord.

The goal is for the leadership of Israel to finally accept the Gospel
of the 144,000 JEWISH witnesses. It is the "time of JACOB's trouble"
(Jere 30:4-7), not the Church.

1 Thess. 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining
salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,


So the rapture of the Church does not, according to scripture, signify
the beginning of the seven year Tribulation. It is when the Antichrist
lures the leadership of Israel into signing the peace agreement. The
Church is the "mystery" entity and it has no relationship to the 70
weeks of Daniel in any form. As its advent was unannounced, so will be
its "departure".

So when we watch the current events surrounding Israel, we should
understand that the return of Christ for His Church, for His bride, is
not chronologically linked to Daniel's 70th week. That week of years
only relates to Israel's purification. Christ's return for the Church
is as it has always been, imminent.
B.G. Kent
2006-07-18 03:59:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
As a bible believing Christian, I cannot but be attentive to the
Israeli situation. However, I've lived long enough to know that one
can all to easily read into current events biblical prophecies.
Immediately I would say however, that the stage of prophetic events has
never been so completely set as it is today. However, Christians are
wrong to conclude that the Rapture of the Church inaugurates the
Tribulation.
B - and also if you believe in the literal take on the Bible..or shall we
say the right wing take...it says that no one shall know when this
happens. Convenient I say....a constant threat hanging over our heads
every generation.

Bren
l***@hotmail.com
2006-07-19 03:07:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by l***@hotmail.com
As a bible believing Christian, I cannot but be attentive to the
Israeli situation. However, I've lived long enough to know that one
can all to easily read into current events biblical prophecies.
Immediately I would say however, that the stage of prophetic events has
never been so completely set as it is today. However, Christians are
wrong to conclude that the Rapture of the Church inaugurates the
Tribulation.
B - and also if you believe in the literal take on the Bible..or shall we
say the right wing take...it says that no one shall know when this
happens. Convenient I say....a constant threat hanging over our heads
every generation.
Doesn't know the day or the hour. Let's be precise. However, signs
are not given to the Church but to the Jews. And though one does
not know the day or the hour, one can certainly recognize the season.
Either way, the Church is taken out of the world prior to its
realization.
Either way, the Antichrist must sign a peace agreement with the "many"
before the "Day of the Lord", of which the Tribulation is only the
opening act, can come to fruition.

"Right wing" = literal? Hmmm. It is obvious that you treat the Bible
as a fantasy book. You pick and choose what to take literally and
what to leave as folklore or just fiction. Jesus HImself never did
this
so what give you the right to do so?
B.G. Kent
2006-07-20 01:32:45 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 ***@hotmail.com wrote:

...
Post by l***@hotmail.com
"Right wing" = literal? Hmmm. It is obvious that you treat the Bible
as a fantasy book. You pick and choose what to take literally and
what to leave as folklore or just fiction. Jesus HImself never did
this
so what give you the right to do so?
B - in my experience right wingers have tended to take the Bible
literally. No I don't treat the Bible as a fantasy book...I take it as a
book with not only an inner and outer meaning...like the Koran...but also
a book containing both God and egoic man.

As to your last line....you don't know what Jesus did..you only know what
you have been told.

Blessings
Bren
l***@hotmail.com
2006-07-21 03:31:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
...
Post by l***@hotmail.com
"Right wing" = literal? Hmmm. It is obvious that you treat the Bible
as a fantasy book. You pick and choose what to take literally and
what to leave as folklore or just fiction. Jesus HImself never did
this
so what give you the right to do so?
B - in my experience right wingers have tended to take the Bible
literally.
I doubt you even know what literalism is. From my reading of your
posts you display no comprehension of hermeneutical principles. Like
all too many others, you subjugate literalism to an extreme absolutism.
Even an introductory class in literature would teach you otherwise.
Post by B.G. Kent
No I don't treat the Bible as a fantasy book...I take it as a
book with not only an inner and outer meaning...like the Koran...but also
a book containing both God and egoic man.
Again, you display non-Christian trappings. There is no comparision
between
the Koran the Christian Scriptures even as just a work of literature
let alone all Divine revelation given authoritatively. Historically it
has been documented that at best, the
Koran was written by a man with severe medical dillusions, at worst, by
demonic influence. The Christian scriptures were written over 2000 yrs
by numerous authors and yet there is a harmony of thought which flows
from book to book, from culture to culture, age to age, dispensation to
dispensation, which the world had never even remotely duplicated. The
Koran is more on a par to the Bagadavita than the Judaio/Christian
Scriptures. I've been in secular literature classes when the liberal
almost anti-Christian teacher admitted to this fact.
Post by B.G. Kent
As to your last line....you don't know what Jesus did.
Well you would if you actually studied the Scriptures rather than treat
them as "fantasy."
Post by B.G. Kent
you only know what you have been told.
Again, your words betray the fact that you are not a Christian. For a
true Christ has Christ living in him/her. The Spirit gives testimony
to the
fact that they are a son or a daughter, a joint heir with Christ
HImself. As
Paul teaches in his confrontation with the Jewish Gnostics in
Colossians,
"in Christ" is not only an experiential reality, but even beyond that
all
knowledge is only found "in Christ." This is an elementary principle
of
Christianity. That you deny it or wish to synthesize it, you
disassociate yourself from true Christianity and even Christ Himself.
Therefore you remain under the wrath of God. This means you are
bound for eternal damnation, Brenda. No laughing matter. You are
placing your eternal future on "vain speculations."

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