Discussion:
Will heaven be different things for different people?
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Jan
2007-04-11 02:52:09 UTC
Permalink
I am speculating what people from different cultures and different
levels of affluence may think about what heaven will be like.

A very affluent person may think of heaven as a place that is free of
pretentious trappings. No gold faucets. No streets of gold. No jewel
encrusted anythings.

A person who lives in a grass hut with a dirt floor with vermin and
insect pests may think of heaven as a wooden shack with wood flooring
and free from vermin and insects.

Would the person who has never known affluence be put off by the
trappings of affluence? Would the person who has only known affluence
be tired of it and yearn for simplicity, quiet, and anonymity?
B.G. Kent
2007-04-11 23:31:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan
I am speculating what people from different cultures and different
levels of affluence may think about what heaven will be like.
A very affluent person may think of heaven as a place that is free of
pretentious trappings. No gold faucets. No streets of gold. No jewel
encrusted anythings.
snip for space....

I think it will be like a better more purer version of this earth
here....without anything that really bothers us.

Bren
Bob
2007-04-13 04:06:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by Jan
I am speculating what people from different cultures and different
levels of affluence may think about what heaven will be like.
A very affluent person may think of heaven as a place that is free of
pretentious trappings. No gold faucets. No streets of gold. No jewel
encrusted anythings.
snip for space....
I think it will be like a better more purer version of this earth
here....without anything that really bothers us.
Bren
Like the Garden of Eden before "we" screwed it up? Since God hand
picked a spot to create the first humans, I would think it must have
been the most perfect spot on earth.
I'm not concerned about where or what heaven is like. I'm more
interested in who will be there. (Matt about Bren, inside the pearly
gates): "My word! Who would have thought she'd have made it to heaven?
And a tour guide at that!" ;>)
Bob S.
gilgames
2007-04-13 04:06:04 UTC
Permalink
<<
snip for space....

I think it will be like a better more purer version of this earth
here....without anything that really bothers us.

Bren
I believe after the resurrection the heaven will be like our Earth,
except the sex and the sin. The sex is unnecessary, since no more
procreation, and the sin is conquered by the clear and immediate
knowledge of the Truth.

Also the Hell will be like the Earth, with the exception that there will
be no good will any more. The 20th Century and the beginning of the 21st
proves that the Hell does not need God for punishment, human beings
makes it sufficiently for each other.
B.G. Kent
2007-04-14 01:12:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
I'm not concerned about where or what heaven is like. I'm more
interested in who will be there. (Matt about Bren, inside the pearly
gates): "My word! Who would have thought she'd have made it to heaven?
And a tour guide at that!" ;>)
Bob S.
B - Hehhe...I like that Bob...but doesn't that mean I'd have to go before
him? Oh I'll be there....I totally believe that.

thanks.
love Bren
Jan
2007-06-06 01:15:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by Bob
I'm not concerned about where or what heaven is like. I'm more
interested in who will be there. (Matt about Bren, inside the pearly
gates): "My word! Who would have thought she'd have made it to heaven?
And a tour guide at that!" ;>)
Bob S.
B - Hehhe...I like that Bob...but doesn't that mean I'd have to go before
him? Oh I'll be there....I totally believe that.
thanks.
love Bren
Okay. Suppose we make it and we are hoping to see all our childhood
friends, but we never thought to look them up on classmates.com where
we could have discovered they are old like us and have grandkids who
are older than they were when we knew them? Does this awareness
pretty much throw the "meet up with old friends and relatives" out the
window or will we see them at every stage in their past existence as
they simultaneously see us at every stage in our past existence?

Also, how will people be treated who killed in the name of war,
because their leader "made them" do it? Will they be heroes in God's
eyes even though the former enemy may now be on equally good standing
with God. Do leaders of countries have a God given right to tell
others to disobey the ten commandments in the name of the political
agenda of the day even though the agenda may be entirely different in
ten, twenty, fifty, or one hundred, five hundred, or even a thousand
years?

I have a lot of trouble getting used to the idea that all leaders will
go to heaven simply because they went to church and believed they were
doing the right thing. If I see someone stab my brother and I stab the
person that stabbed him, in the law's eyes I am as culpable as the
person who drew the knife first. But if a national leader does it or a
police officer does it, does that make it right in God's eyes even if
the Law says it was right. Is God the Supreme Being or is anyone in
power the Supreme Being? And does God recognize their supremity for
all time? Not just for today but forever and ever and ever.

I will be able to believe more devoutly when I get answers to the many
questions I have which I have not found believeable answers for in the
Bible. Sometimes I even think portions of the Bible were edited for
the benefit of mortals in power at the moment those portions were
written. What man needs is a Bible that comes directly from God, not
just one that was written by "inspired" men of God. How do we know
that starvation from wandering in the desert for forty years didn't
lead them to believe with all their hearts and souls that they saw
things that didn't really exist? Afterall we believe that Timothy
Leary never *really* saw God because we know he was on LSD quite a
bit. But what if we didn't know what LSD was and what if Timothy Leary
was one of a limited number of scribes who could put their ideas on
paper (or papyrus) for the generations to come? How would the later
generations ever come to know Timothy Leary just saw visions conjured
by his own mind?

Yes I want to believe. I wanted to believe in Santa. I wanted to
believe in the Easter Bunny. I wanted to believe in the Tooth Fairy. I
even wanted to believe that cancer and AIDS would be cured by the end
of the 20th century and Christ would be back here as well. Now that I
am a LOT older I don't know what to believe anymore and just because
it is written in a book that COULD HAVE BEEN edited by self-serving
MEN makes be wonder about almost everything that I was told when I was
younger. Sure there are a lot of fascinating theories which people
claim are the truth but every generation has many unalienable "truths"
which they only take seriously until someone proves them wrong.

What I want to know is what present truths are going to remain truths
5000 years from now and will our souls be punished if it is later
discovered we were worshipping the wrong things just as we now believe
the ancient Greek and Roman and Egyptian beliefs are now all
classified as mythology, just a nicer word for total fantasy?


Jan
B.G. Kent
2007-06-07 04:17:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by Bob
I'm not concerned about where or what heaven is like. I'm more
interested in who will be there. (Matt about Bren, inside the pearly
gates): "My word! Who would have thought she'd have made it to heaven?
And a tour guide at that!" ;>)
Bob S.
B - Hehhe...I like that Bob...but doesn't that mean I'd have to go before
him? Oh I'll be there....I totally believe that.
thanks.
love Bren
pretty much throw the "meet up with old friends and relatives" out the
window or will we see them at every stage in their past existence as
they simultaneously see us at every stage in our past existence?
B - Why wouldn't everyone be just the same age? physically we don't need
the bodies...the aging etc. as we are sans that kind of body...so why
would we age over there?
Post by Jan
agenda of the day even though the agenda may be entirely different in
ten, twenty, fifty, or one hundred, five hundred, or even a thousand
years?
B - all are equal in Gods eyes....no heroes anymore than anyone else.
Post by Jan
I have a lot of trouble getting used to the idea that all leaders will
go to heaven simply because they went to church and believed they were
doing the right thing.
B - I believe everyone that is not a dark entity will be there...and dark
entities ..after more learning lives on this school called Earth...will
finally take the right door to heaven.
Post by Jan
What I want to know is what present truths are going to remain truths
5000 years from now and will our souls be punished if it is later
discovered we were worshipping the wrong things just as we now believe
the ancient Greek and Roman and Egyptian beliefs are now all
classified as mythology, just a nicer word for total fantasy?
B - in 5000 years....will it matter? If you have love and love
others as yourself....that is all that
matters as far as I believe.
Obviously this is all my opinion...but I feel very confident in it and in
Gods love. I can't say why.
Post by Jan
Jan
Bren
Matthew Johnson
2007-06-07 04:17:29 UTC
Permalink
In article <cVn9i.51$***@trnddc02>, Jan says...
[snip]
Post by Jan
I have a lot of trouble getting used to the idea that all leaders will
go to heaven simply because they went to church and believed they were
doing the right thing.
Well, so _don't_ get used to it. Nobody in his right mind ever taught that.
Indeed: what you propose here is _so_ bizarre, it sounds like just another lame
"straw-man" argument.

No serious Christian ever proposed that "all leaders will to to heaven". Far
from it.
Post by Jan
If I see someone stab my brother and I stab the
person that stabbed him, in the law's eyes I am as culpable as the
person who drew the knife first. But if a national leader does it or a
police officer does it, does that make it right in God's eyes even if
the Law says it was right.
Don't you worry over his salvation. Worry about your own.
Post by Jan
Is God the Supreme Being or is anyone in
power the Supreme Being?
Of course "anyone in power" is not the Supreme Being. How can you expect us to
take you seriously when you propose such questions?
Post by Jan
And does God recognize their supremity for
all time?
There is no supremity to recognize, so this question is out of place.
Post by Jan
Not just for today but forever and ever and ever.
I will be able to believe more devoutly when I get answers to the many
questions I have which I have not found believeable answers for in the
Bible.
Start then, with questions that make sense.

[snip]
--
-----------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
Bob
2007-06-12 01:28:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan
Okay. Suppose we make it and we are hoping to see all our childhood
friends, but we never thought to look them up on classmates.com where
we could have discovered they are old like us and have grandkids who
are older than they were when we knew them? Does this awareness
pretty much throw the "meet up with old friends and relatives" out the
window or will we see them at every stage in their past existence as
they simultaneously see us at every stage in our past existence?
You ask questions that no one has an answer for - only an opinion. My
opinion is that you will not see a physical person, but the composite
essence of the person, as individually distinguishable as fingerprints
are to the physical body.
Post by Jan
Also, how will people be treated who killed in the name of war,
because their leader "made them" do it? Will they be heroes in God's
eyes even though the former enemy may now be on equally good standing
with God. Do leaders of countries have a God given right to tell
others to disobey the ten commandments in the name of the political
agenda of the day......
The common translation of the commandment says "thou shalt not kill",
yet there are numerous exceptions based upon common sense, like self
defense, police actions, war, etc. Some modern translations replace
"kill" with "commit murder", which is much more to the point. There
have always been, and will always be, wars. The RCC states killing
during war is ok as long as it it a "just" war, yet does not address
how a soldier should conduct his/her self in an "untitled" war.
Post by Jan
I have a lot of trouble getting used to the idea that all leaders will
go to heaven simply because they went to church and believed they were
doing the right thing.
Christ said "Not everyone who says Lord,Lord, will enter the
kingdom of Heaven".
Post by Jan
I will be able to believe more devoutly when I get answers to the many
questions I have which I have not found believeable answers for in the
Bible.
I don't think you, I, or millions of others, will get all our
questions answered while we are alive. That's why it's called "faith".
But it is only human to have questions & doubts - even Christ doubted
his Father at one point. ("My God, why have you abandoned me?")

Bob

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