Discussion:
() Violence Begets Violence
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Ninure Saunders
2006-07-28 03:21:10 UTC
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( ) Violence Begets Violence

Chairman Mao once said that political power comes from the barrel of a
gun. Of course it is true that violence can achieve certain short-term
objectives, but it cannot obtain long-lasting ends. If we look at
history, we find that in time, humanity's love of peace, justice, and
freedom always triumphs over cruelty and oppression. This is why I am
such a fervent believer in non-violence. Violence begets violence. And
violence means only one thing: suffering. Theoretically, it is possible
to conceive of a situation where the only way to prevent large-scale
conflict is through armed intervention at an early stage. But the problem
with this argument is that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to
predict the outcome of violence. Nor can we be sure of its justness at the
outset. This only becomes clear when we have the benefit of hindsight.
The only certainty is that where there is violence, there is always and
inevitably suffering. ..

.
I am convinced that the main reason so many people say the path of
non-violence is impractical is because engaging in it seems daunting: we
become discouraged. Nevertheless, whereas formerly it was enough to wish
for peace in one's own land, or even just in one's neighborhood, today we
speak of world peace. This is only appropriate. The fact of human
interdependence is so explicit now: the only peace it is meaningful to
speak of is world peace.

The Dalai Lama, "Peace and Disarmament," Ethics for a New Millennium

======================
--
Pax Christi,
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian

Jesus is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk

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b***@juno.com
2006-07-31 03:16:01 UTC
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Post by Ninure Saunders
The only certainty is that where there is violence, there is always and
inevitably suffering. ..
Violence never solved anything.

Except Slavery, Communism, Nazism, Fascism, Al Capone, et
cetera...........

Oh wait. I guess violence DOES solve things. My bad.
Matthew Johnson
2006-08-01 02:26:52 UTC
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Post by b***@juno.com
Post by Ninure Saunders
The only certainty is that where there is violence, there is always and
inevitably suffering. ..
Violence never solved anything.
Except Slavery, Communism, Nazism, Fascism, Al Capone, et
cetera...........
Oh wait. I guess violence DOES solve things. My bad.
You are right. It is your 'bad'. For these things are not solved yet. Slavery is
still practiced in Africa, Communism in Cuba & Vietnam, Nazi parties still exist
in various parts of Europe, fascism is _still_ an inspiration to despotic
governments around the world, and Al Capone is dead, but the money he stole was
not all recovered. Far from it.

So NONE of these things are really 'solved'.
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
B.G. Kent
2006-08-01 02:26:53 UTC
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Post by b***@juno.com
Post by Ninure Saunders
The only certainty is that where there is violence, there is always and
inevitably suffering. ..
Violence never solved anything.
Except Slavery, Communism, Nazism, Fascism, Al Capone, et
cetera...........
Oh wait. I guess violence DOES solve things. My bad.
B - We still have slavery in the
world...communism...Neo-Nazis,fascists,and mobsters.....
it didn't solve anything....it only moves it.

Bren
Ninure Saunders
2006-08-01 02:26:54 UTC
Permalink
In article <RBezg.5693$***@trnddc02>, ***@juno.com wrote:

-> The only certainty is that where there is violence, there is always and
-> inevitably suffering. ..
->
-
-Violence never solved anything.
-
-Except Slavery,

The American Civil War was not about ending slavery.....if the Union could
have been kept intact by keeping Blacks un chain, there would have been no
war.

Communism,

Communism in Europe was not ended by violencem abd Communisim still exusts
in China, B.Korea and Cyba.


Nazism, Fascism,

If tge countries that embraced those idelogies had not declared war on the
US, the US would have been content to let them thrive.



Al Capone, et
-cetera.........

What?


Al Capone was taken down by the US lehal system/

..
-
-Oh wait. I guess violence DOES solve things. My bad.
--
Pax Christi,
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian

Jesus is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk

My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk

Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org

The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org

To send e-mail, remove your hat
zach
2006-08-02 01:45:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by b***@juno.com
Post by Ninure Saunders
The only certainty is that where there is violence, there is always and
inevitably suffering. ..
Violence never solved anything.
Except Slavery, Communism, Nazism, Fascism, Al Capone, et
cetera...........
Oh wait. I guess violence DOES solve things. My bad.
B - We still have slavery in the
world...
I think he was talking about in the United States.
Post by B.G. Kent
communism...Neo-Nazis,fascists,and mobsters.....
it didn't solve anything....it only moves it.
Violence worked for the Communists. That is how they came into power,
and that is how they stay in power. Violence as a response defeated the
spread of European Fascism, freed nations, and saved millions of lives.
It also prevented the complete annihilation of European Jewry. What is
"solved" depends upon your point-of-view. It is also often said that
war never "solves" anything. That is not true. A war decisively fought
to the end _always_ "solves" something... for the winner. So, to say
violence never "solves" anything is simplistic thinking. It is often
not the best way, but sometimes it is the only way. I think we are, of
course, now talking about nations, which are not people. I think
personal pacifism is another matter, which is really more applicable to
living life in a Christian manner.
b***@juno.com
2006-08-02 01:45:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ninure Saunders
The American Civil War was not about ending slavery.....if the Union could
have been kept intact by keeping Blacks un chain, there would have been no
war.
You are confusing motives with results. It does not matter what the
Civil War was "about." The only thing that matters is what it
"resulted" in.

Ie, the Emancipation Proclamation was the main result of the war,
regardless of the motives that either preceded or followed it.
Post by Ninure Saunders
Communism,
Communism in Europe was not ended by violencem abd Communisim still exusts
in China, B.Korea and Cyba.
It still exists, but is near the end of its run. As Seinfeld said when
speaking to a communist, "You guys had a pretty good run."
Post by Ninure Saunders
Nazism, Fascism,
If tge countries that embraced those idelogies had not declared war on the
US, the US would have been content to let them thrive.
Again, you are analyzing the MOTIVES (real or imagined) of the US. But
such motive analysis is not relevant to my point, which is that
violence against Hitler and Mussolini led to their demise.

The actual violence is what did it. It does not matter how noble or
ignoble the US happened to be at the time.
Post by Ninure Saunders
Al Capone was taken down by the US lehal system/
"All we are saying is, give peace a chance."
-the Beatles

"All we are saying is, give PIECE a chance."
-Gun Store Owners

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