Why?

[r***@yahoo.com]

Why do you believe? I spent 12 years in the Roman Catholic education
system, and it bred in me an independence that led me to the conclusion
that there is no God. God (in my opinion) is a construct of a needy
human mind, with no meaning beyond control of the weak.

In my opinion, the state of humanity in modern times is as near as you
will get to proof that a benevolent god does not exist. The planet is
in serious trouble on several fronts.

In addition to the socio-political realities of the modern world, there
is the question of "God's people". I refuse to believe that Pat
Buchanan, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, etc are the voice of God in our
times. They are hucksters trying to make a (few million) buck(s).

[d***@aol.com]

Post by r***@yahoo.com
Why do you believe? I spent 12 years in the Roman Catholic education
system, and it bred in me an independence that led me to the conclusion
that there is no God. God (in my opinion) is a construct of a needy
human mind, with no meaning beyond control of the weak.
In my opinion, the state of humanity in modern times is as near as you
will get to proof that a benevolent god does not exist. The planet is
in serious trouble on several fronts.
In addition to the socio-political realities of the modern world, there
is the question of "God's people". I refuse to believe that Pat
Buchanan, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, etc are the voice of God in our
times. They are hucksters trying to make a (few million) buck(s).

Interesting, modern evolutionary biology would even say that the "human
mind" is a construct, according to E.O. Wilson it is simply the result
of a multitude of sensation being associated with a body. If that is so
then you would be dealing with a construct of a construct :-) As to the
state of the planet in our times; would you prefer to have lived just
before the religions you dislike came to be? It seems to me these are
pretty good times, even compared with my youth when doomsday was just a
button push away.
When you deny the people you mention are "the voice of God" (which may
be true anyway) you imply that there is a God and that He has another
voice. Perhaps that voice is what you should be listening for.
You will note that there is another "huckster" community- lawyers and
politicians looking to make points (or money) attacking people of
faith, often because people of faith think what these people are doing,
or proposing to do, is wrong. Some people cannot deal with the idea
that there really is a right and a wrong. If they can just kick God out
of the equation then they can continue without any problems from these
moralistic people that insist, well, that there is a proper morality.
No problems that is unless they are wrong. :-)

Daryl

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by r***@yahoo.com
Why do you believe?

If I knew _why_ I believed, then it wouldn't be belief, it would be theory;)

Post by r***@yahoo.com
I spent 12 years in the Roman Catholic education
system, and it bred in me an independence that led me to the conclusion
that there is no God.

I have heard this often from those who spent much time in that system. This
suggests it is a problem with the system. St. Symeon the Theologian even
suggests what it is, when he says:

For those who look carnally, God is nowhere, since He is invisible; but for
those who look spiritually, He is _everywhere_, for He is omnipresent. He is in
all things and out of all things, for He is "near to those who fear Him (Ps
85:9)" but "far from sinners is His salvation (Ps 118:155)
(fm http://www.hesychasm.ru/library/stsymeon/glav_101.htm)

Post by r***@yahoo.com
God (in my opinion) is a construct of a needy
human mind, with no meaning beyond control of the weak.

But that opinion sounds like the opinion of a weak, needy mind! A _strong_ mind
does not run away from the paradoxes implied by faith and the life of the
faithful.

Post by r***@yahoo.com
In my opinion, the state of humanity in modern times is as near as you
will get to proof that a benevolent god does not exist.

And that is not near enough. It is still far from proof, especially when there
are still people alive today who have suffered far more than you or I have yet
still hold on to faith in God.

Post by r***@yahoo.com
The planet is
in serious trouble on several fronts.

Obviously. And your point is?

Post by r***@yahoo.com
In addition to the socio-political realities of the modern world, there
is the question of "God's people". I refuse to believe that Pat
Buchanan, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, etc are the voice of God in our
times. They are hucksters trying to make a (few million) buck(s).

Well, of _course_ they are not. But some people jump to the conclusion that
since such hypocrites exist, there is no God. That is an even greater tragedy.

So then how do we know they are not His spokesmen? Because Christ told us who
His real followers/spokesmen are when he told us who shall be called great in
the Kingdom of Heaven:


Matthew 18 (KJV)
1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in
the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little
children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is
greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

So don't listen to the blowhards: listen to those who distinguished themselves
for this humility, such as St. John Chrysostom, St. Basil the Great, St. Symeon
the Theologian and St. Seraphim Sarov. And they ALL will tell you the same
thing. God really does exist, and really does care for mankind in His
providence.

[zach]

Post by r***@yahoo.com
In my opinion, the state of humanity in modern times is as near as you
will get to proof that a benevolent god does not exist. The planet is
in serious trouble on several fronts.

Given that humanity overall is in much better shape than it has been in
recorded human history makes me think the opposite.

Post by r***@yahoo.com
In addition to the socio-political realities of the modern world, there
is the question of "God's people". I refuse to believe that Pat
Buchanan, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, etc are the voice of God in our
times. They are hucksters trying to make a (few million) buck(s).

One thing has nothing to do with the other. The Bible itself warns that
such false prophets and deceivers will come into the world, preaching
in the name of God.

[Bob]

Post by Matthew Johnson

Post by r***@yahoo.com
I spent 12 years in the Roman Catholic education
system, and it bred in me an independence that led me to the conclusion
that there is no God.

I have heard this often from those who spent much time in that system. This
suggests it is a problem with the system.

Matt, I think you're jumping to conclusions that suit your own ideas,
much as you blame others of doing. Could it not simply be that you
hear this often because there are more RC's than any other christian
group? Therefore even though the overall number may be higher, the
percentage is the same as any other religious pursuasion? People
change religious ideas and change churches all the time. Why do you
say the RCC system is at fault when other's do the same thing. Do I
detect some prejudice in you???

Bob

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by Bob

Post by Matthew Johnson

Post by r***@yahoo.com
I spent 12 years in the Roman Catholic education
system, and it bred in me an independence that led me to the conclusion
that there is no God.

I have heard this often from those who spent much time in that
system. This suggests it is a problem with the system.

Matt, I think you're jumping to conclusions that suit your own ideas,

Well, I am not about to jump to those conclusions that suit yours, am I?

Post by Bob
much as you blame others of doing.

No, you are the one who is doing that.

Post by Bob
Could it not simply be that you hear this often because there are
more RC's than any other christian group?

No. But the reason for this was not pertinent to the thread, so I did
not go into it.

Post by Bob
Therefore even though the overall number may be higher, the
percentage is the same as any other religious pursuasion?

Now you are not agreeing with well known facts. Their "overall number"
is NOT higher. There are, however, more RCCs than of any other single
'denomination' -- not that even -that- is pertinent, since we were
talking about the _school_ system, not RC-ism as as whole.

This, by the way, is where you jumped to your own conclusion: you
criticize my criticism as if it were a criticism of RC-ism, rather
than of the system of RC schools. But since I never specified that in
this thread, that is _certainly_ a _jump_ to the conclusion.

In fact, though I do criticize the RCC in some threads, that would
have been quite out of place in that post, since the RCC and myself
are in near total agreement concerning why my then-interlocutor is
very much in the wrong.

Post by Bob
People change religious ideas and change churches all the time. Why
do you say the RCC system is at fault when other's do the same
thing. Do I detect some prejudice in you???

Your prejudice detector is in serious need of calibration. Just as I
explained above.