Discussion:
Reality check
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Jacob
2007-12-03 02:11:59 UTC
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We human beings are quite good at deceiving ourselves. The Bible says
that the heart is more deceitful than anything else (Je.17:9). We can
make ourselves believe what we want to believe. Especially when we
don't like what we see in ourselves we would like to make ourselves
believe that we are in fact better or greater than we really are.

Let us just look at some circumstances in which we may deceive
ourselves.

Let us say we have understood doctrines better than many people around
us. As a result we frequently find ourselves being in the right when
we look at others who are wrong. This tends to make us think that we
are better than the others, forgetting that it is only our doctrines
that are better! There may still be a big gap between what we believe
as doctrines and how we are in our practical life. Don't we need a
reality check?

Or, we are in a good church with great preaching and lots of
activities. We feel quite great when we stand in the midst of the
others and join in worship, thankful that our church is so good. But
does it follow that just because we are in a good church we are
spiritual? We need another reality check.

Perhaps our pastor is a great man of God, and his sermons are so
touching! We know him personally and he has come to our house and
blessed us! Does association with a great man make us great? Reality
check!

We say we have one or two spiritual gifts. When we 'minister' others
are blessed! Do spiritual gifts make anyone spiritual? Or is it
spiritual fruit that make us spiritual? (Mt.7:22,23).

We are very active in Christian work, giving of our time and energy,
and people may think much about us. But isn't it possible that we are
hollow inside (1Co.13:3)?

Perhaps someone prophesied over us that we are someone special for
God. Even assuming that it was genuine, think of King Saul or Judas,
for example, who started with a great calling!

We can look back at some fantastic experiences we have had in the
past, perhaps? We saw a dream or a vision or heard God speaking to us,
or we have experienced a miraculous healing or answer to prayer. Do
such experiences make us special, or are these merely signs of God's
kindness? There may be other circumstances that tend to make us think
that we are someone special or great.

What is the basis of a good reality check?

What is really important is what God thinks about us, whether we are
special or great. And what makes anyone special in God's eyes depends
on his life, depending on how much he has taken part of the spirit of
Christ. Jesus certainly appreciated great faith. But great faith leads
to great lives, which can be seen, heard and touched by others around
us (1Jn.1:1,2). That is the ultimate reality check.

Let us not deceive ourselves. Reality may hurt, but it is the truth.
It is better to go through a painful surgery now than to suffer
eternal loss. Just as we change our physical lifestyle when a medical
test shows something wrong, shall we not mend our ways when the
reality test of our lives gives a warning?
shegeek72
2007-12-05 04:08:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jacob
Let us say we have understood doctrines better than many people around
us.
An arrogant attitude. Religious doctrine is based on all manner of
things, including translation, interpretation, context, etc. As I've
said before, no one has lock, stock and barrel on what the Bible
says.

The poster implies God sees some people as more 'special' than others?
In other words, a judgmental God. This thinking is the root of
prejudice and bigotry. "I'm a Christian and you're not, therefore I'm
more 'special' than you!" God loves everyone, whether they are a
heinous criminal, Christian, non-Christian, atheist, gay, straight,
transgender, etc.

The world would be boring if everyone was Christian and believed that
same things.
Post by Jacob
Let us not deceive ourselves. Reality may hurt, but it is the truth.
Everyone's reality is different. 'Reality' is based on one's
upbringing, conditioning, beliefs, etc. so we see reality through the
lenses and coloration of our perceptions. The poster's beliefs are
based on: "I know what the Bible says and if you don't agree with me
you're wrong." This type of thinking has led to all sorts of suffering
of our brothers and sisters who may not hold the belief system of some
'Christians.'
--
Tara's Transgender Resources
http://tarasresources.net

Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.mccchurch.org
Matthew Johnson
2007-12-09 23:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by Jacob
Let us say we have understood doctrines better than many people
around us.
An arrogant attitude.
Now this is the pot calling the kettle black!
Post by shegeek72
Religious doctrine is based on all manner of things, including
translation, interpretation, context, etc. As I've said before, no
one has lock, stock and barrel on what the Bible says.
You certainly have said that often enough before. Maybe too often;)
All the more the pity, then, that you yourself do not understand the
principle's implication. Rather, instead of _understanding_ it, you
use it as an _excuse_, even a really _poor_ excuse, for thinly
disguised solipsism, reducing the Bible to nihilistic meaninglessness.
Post by shegeek72
The poster implies God sees some people as more 'special' than
others? In other words, a judgmental God.
No, that is NOT what "a judgemental God" would mean.
Post by shegeek72
This thinking is the root of prejudice and bigotry.
Oh, wouldn't it be so easy for you if that were true!
Post by shegeek72
"I'm a Christian and you're not, therefore I'm more 'special' than
you!" God loves everyone, whether they are a heinous criminal,
Christian, non-Christian, atheist, gay, straight, transgender, etc.
Not so fast, The same Scripture that in one place describes God as
loving all men (e.g. Mat 5:45), also describes that _same_ God as
hating the wicked, e.g:

The LORD trieth the righteous; but the wicked and him that loveth
violence His soul hateth. (Psa 11:5 JPS)

Stop being _exactly_ the kind of person He 'hates'!
Post by shegeek72
The world would be boring if everyone was Christian and believed that
same things.
Post by Jacob
Let us not deceive ourselves. Reality may hurt, but it is the truth.
Everyone's reality is different.
No. This is sheer nonsense, as proved so well by the "classical
realist" philosophers of the Radical Academy at
http://www.radicalacademy.com/askacademy12.htm.
Post by shegeek72
'Reality' is based on one's upbringing, conditioning, beliefs, etc.
All of this is dead wrong. See the Radical Academy link above.
Post by shegeek72
so we see reality through the lenses and coloration of our
perceptions.
No, there is no 'so' here. Yes, we _see_ it differently, but we do not
_observe_ unless we add our power of reason to our mere
perception. Only then can we see reality as it really is, just as in
Augustine's example, the man who sees the oar in clear water, which
_appears_ broken; but his reason tells him that it is _not_
broken. And it is only after this application of reason on top of mere
physical perception that he observes and undesrtands the reality, that
the oar is NOT broken.

Unfortunately, since you insist on applying only a _parody_ of reason,
the 'reality' you 'see' is very broken indeed.
Post by shegeek72
The poster's beliefs are based on: "I know what the Bible says and if
you don't agree with me you're wrong." This type of thinking has led
to all sorts of suffering of our brothers and sisters who may not
hold the belief system of some 'Christians.'
I don't believe that is an accurate description of Jninan's thinking
or beliefs, but I will let him defend himself on that one.

In the meantime, I will say that even without agreeing with Jninan, you
have found a way to be wrong easily enough;)
--
-----------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
Jacob
2007-12-11 02:08:31 UTC
Permalink
All of us have pet themes floating around in our mind, and we are very
sensitive to certain things. As a result, there is a tendency, when we
begin to read a post or article, and we come across something that
looks like one of our pet peeves, that we take off in that direction.
What we need to do is to remember that others are different from us,
have somewhat different ideas, perhaps think differently from us, etc.
Then when we read the post, we can read it as a whole and try to
understand what the author is saying, rather than jump in to pick
holes.

Jacob
A Brown
2007-12-12 03:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jacob
All of us have pet themes floating around in our mind, and we are very
sensitive to certain things. As a result, there is a tendency, when we
begin to read a post or article, and we come across something that
looks like one of our pet peeves, that we take off in that direction.
What we need to do is to remember that others are different from us,
have somewhat different ideas, perhaps think differently from us, etc.
Wow....Jacob, that would be nice....but maybe we're dreaming?

There is a problem whenever religion is discussed....everyone has a vested
interest in their brand of theology, and have a hard time comprehending that
everyone is at a different place in their walk.

Some people come to this newsgroup with the sole purpose of stroking their
own ego, that they are correct, their pastor is correct, etc....and everyone
who comes to a differing conclusion must be satan himself.

Does this sound familiar?
Jacob
2007-12-14 03:27:51 UTC
Permalink
yes, it is a very familiar sight on newsgroups, unfortunately.

another thing i find on newsgroups is that most people seem to be
interested in picking holes in posts as well as tearing others down,
and not so much bothered about what these posts are trying to say. so
many times when you have a post that is a few threads old, the latest
discussion is on some subject that has nothing to do with the original
posting! it's funny for outsiders. as long as you are not caught in
the middle of it.

jacob
shegeek72
2007-12-17 03:08:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jacob
yes, it is a very familiar sight on newsgroups, unfortunately.
Welcome to usenet.
Post by Jacob
another thing i find on newsgroups is that most people seem to be
interested in picking holes in posts
There could be no picking holes in posts if they did not exist in the
first place.
Post by Jacob
as well as tearing others down
I think it's obvious who those are in this ng, particularly one
individual.
--
Protestants don't recognize the Pope as leader of the church.
Jews don't recognize Jesus as the messiah.
Baptists don't recognize each other at Hooters and the liquor store.
Matthew Johnson
2007-12-18 00:11:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by Jacob
yes, it is a very familiar sight on newsgroups, unfortunately.
Welcome to usenet.
Post by Jacob
another thing i find on newsgroups is that most people seem to be
interested in picking holes in posts
There could be no picking holes in posts if they did not exist in the
first place.
That is like saying school papers would have no Fs on them if there were no
school papers.

Just as in school, the solution to the problem of Fs on papers is to write
better papers, so here, the solution to "picking holes in posts" is to learn to
write posts better, so that holes _cannot_ be 'picked'.

Futhermore, just as the incorrigible bad student pleads for school papers to be
banned, instead of learnign to write better papers, so here also: it is the
worst offenders against the principles of educated discourse who are complaining
about "picking holes in posts".
--
-----------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
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