Gnostics

[gilgames]

***@newsguy.com

<<

Yes, he and the Gnostics are interesting.

'Interesting'? They taught a delusion that lead many to perdition, and
you call
them 'interesting'?
The Gnosis was present in the world for long time before Christ, and
originaly was a very sincere search for God through the knowledge.

On AD 136 Hadrian expelled the Jews from the Empire. Most of them left
to Hispany, and survived as sephardim until our time.

Almost exactly on the same time the Christian gnosis appeared: Montanus,
Valentinian, Marcion. They organized secret societies whitin the Church,
they claimed that they are specially selected by God as leaders, they
claimed to get special revelation from God (naturaly each of the
different doctrine), and mostly they claimed, that they can be united
with God just by theit knowledge.

The gnosticism existed until the 6th Century, and was revived recently.
It is interesting as history, but it is more the denial of the
Christianity and Jesus Christ that part of the Church.

laszlo

[k***@astound.net]

Post by gilgames
The Gnosis was present in the world for long time before Christ, and
originaly was a very sincere search for God through the knowledge.

Possible - but unlikely.

I suggest Simone Petrement's Book "A Separate God" as a statement for
the idea that the Gnosis grew directly out of orthodox Christianity. I
find her case compelling, but I believe it is still a minority view
among the people who study such things.

Which, of course, does not mean it was not a sincere search for God.
But it did not seem valid to most Christians in the second century and
drifted into obscure cult status. One assumes that most of the
surviving Gnostics ultimately became Manichees. Whether or not the
Manichees were ever completely eradicated is one of those questions.

[gilgames]

<<
I suggest Simone Petrement's Book "A Separate God" as a statement for
the idea that the Gnosis grew directly out of orthodox Christianity. I
find her case compelling, but I believe it is still a minority view
among the people who study such things.

Which, of course, does not mean it was not a sincere search for God.
But it did not seem valid to most Christians in the second century and
drifted into obscure cult status. One assumes that most of the
surviving Gnostics ultimately became Manichees. Whether or not the
Manichees were ever completely eradicated is one of those questions.
AFAIK the gnosis was present on the East since very long time, it came
to Europe in the time of Pythagoras and was kept alive by the Platonist,
and later by the pagan neoplatonist.

We agree that the Christian gnostics with their secret societies inside
the Church were always disruptive, it is not w/o reason why the Church
Fathers opposed them so vehemently.

laszlo

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by k***@astound.net

Post by gilgames
The Gnosis was present in the world for long time before Christ, and
originaly was a very sincere search for God through the knowledge.

Possible - but unlikely.

I suppose it depends on which of the many claimants one believes knew
"the Gnosis". I believe only St. Clement of Alexandria and those who
imitated his use of the term "Christian Gnostic".

[snip]

Post by k***@astound.net
One assumes that most of the surviving Gnostics ultimately became
Manichees. Whether or not the Manichees were ever completely
eradicated is one of those questions.

Is there really any serious doubt? Of course they were never
compeltely eradicated. Shafarevitch mentions the evidence (that they
survived into Medieval times) from Inquisition records in his
unpopular work, "Socialism as a Phenomenon of World History".

I suppose one could doubt the Inquisition records, since people will
say anything under torture, a factor Shafaravitch did not take into
account very well.