Was "Re: Some tough questions"

[b***@allvantage.com]

Re: Was "Re: Some tough questions"

The bible talks about the lake of fire Rev.20:14- 15 Yes, God does
not want to see peopler go to hell but he gave a person a choice to
follow him andhis word orsuffer the conserquences. Look at Moses and
Phraoah. God went to great lengths to get Pharaoh to listen but gave
Pharoah the choice on who to follow.

B - having the Bible say something...does not mean that Jesus or God said
this.
I don't believe that God punishes us.
Blessings
Bren

Hello,

Yes, many people do not think the Bible is all from God. But just use
some common sense. If God wanted us to know His will about things,
then would he not make sure that all humans had access to it?
Interestingly, the Bible is the most published book in all the planet.
As this reference puts it:

"The Bible is the most widely distributed book in history. It has also
been translated more times, and into more languages, than any other
book." (The World Book Encyclopedia)

If God was going to be supporting a book, it looks like the Bible is
out in the forefront.

Sincerely, James

**If you wish to have a discussion with me, please use email since I
do not follow ng threads

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[B.G. Kent]

Post by b***@allvantage.com

Re: Was "Re: Some tough questions"

The bible talks about the lake of fire Rev.20:14- 15 Yes, God does
not want to see peopler go to hell but he gave a person a choice to
follow him andhis word orsuffer the conserquences. Look at Moses and
Phraoah. God went to great lengths to get Pharaoh to listen but gave
Pharoah the choice on who to follow.

B - having the Bible say something...does not mean that Jesus or God said
this.
I don't believe that God punishes us.
Blessings
Bren

Hello,
Yes, many people do not think the Bible is all from God. But just use
some common sense. If God wanted us to know His will about things,
then would he not make sure that all humans had access to it?
Interestingly, the Bible is the most published book in all the planet.

B - again...as I responded in email...
You are using the Bible to prove the Bible....this makes little sense and
is circular. One needs to go outside of it...prove the writers were
infused with God..prove the book is to be read literally...prove that God
intended that book to rival all others if you wish for people to believe
this.
If we are just to have "faith"..then it is up to us to come to it on
our own terms..not to be told to do it by others or scared into it with
after death threats. Faith does not come from fear. Give people access to
all texts...to all meditations...and see ..through faith ...which they
choose.Faith cannot be forced or threatened.


Bren

[b***@dodo.com.au]

Post by B.G. Kent

Post by b***@allvantage.com

Re: Was "Re: Some tough questions"

The bible talks about the lake of fire Rev.20:14- 15 Yes, God does
not want to see peopler go to hell but he gave a person a choice to
follow him andhis word orsuffer the conserquences. Look at Moses and
Phraoah. God went to great lengths to get Pharaoh to listen but gave
Pharoah the choice on who to follow.

B - having the Bible say something...does not mean that Jesus or God said
this.
I don't believe that God punishes us.

Yes, many people do not think the Bible is all from God. But just use
some common sense. If God wanted us to know His will about things,
then would he not make sure that all humans had access to it?
Interestingly, the Bible is the most published book in all the planet.

B - again...as I responded in email...
You are using the Bible to prove the Bible....this makes little sense and
is circular. One needs to go outside of it...prove the writers were
infused with God..prove the book is to be read literally...prove that God
intended that book to rival all others if you wish for people to believe
this.
If we are just to have "faith"..then it is up to us to come to it on
our own terms..not to be told to do it by others or scared into it with
after death threats. Faith does not come from fear. Give people access to
all texts...to all meditations...and see ..through faith ...which they
choose.Faith cannot be forced or threatened.
Bren- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I'm a Catholic, and I could use the same analogy to argue the case for
the Papacy - the Roman Catholic Church is the biggest, has been around
the longest and the Papacy is based on Christ's statement to Peter.
Since it has proved to be the most enduring establishment on earth,
then God is behind it.

Moslems could make a simlar case about the Koran, and Islam.

The key question then becomes "Does the testimony of history prove
that God speaks through the Bible, and / or that He willed the
establishment of the Papacy?"

I think the testimony of history does have a role to play. It is not
entirely a case of circular reasoning, but it does depend on an
assumption that God is the final arbiter of human history.

[B.G. Kent]

Post by b***@dodo.com.au
The key question then becomes "Does the testimony of history prove
that God speaks through the Bible, and / or that He willed the
establishment of the Papacy?"
I think the testimony of history does have a role to play. It is not
entirely a case of circular reasoning, but it does depend on an
assumption that God is the final arbiter of human history.

B - Yes when we get right down to it ...it all comes to did God actually
speak to these people?....and did they give that info to people who
actually "heard and understood corrrectly" enough to write it down?. After
that.....whose translation is correct and why is it? I'm sure proof of
certain buildings,towns,structures,mountains etc. can all be proven...that
sort of goes without saying..but we have people here who are saying things
"are" not "might be" because they believe in it or believe they must
believe in it or go to the firey gates of "hell". They then argue that
they are right without any real proof and expect you to agree or else you
are either A: being combative or contrary or B: being mislead by the
"devil" and therefore are to be either pitied or hated.
I think it far better to admit that you have no real proof...that you
personally believe and that you hope others find their way. To me that is
the most honest a person can be and the most loving. I don't expect others
to be like me...in that kind of truth...but I hope for it. I totally
believe in God and believe in some of the Bible...but I would never say to
anyone that they MUST believe my way. Spirituality is a very personal and
deeply meaningful thing and to tell someone point blank "you are
wrong"...is to totally lack humility and understanding I figure.

Bren

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by B.G. Kent

Post by b***@dodo.com.au
The key question then becomes "Does the testimony of history prove
that God speaks through the Bible, and / or that He willed the
establishment of the Papacy?"
I think the testimony of history does have a role to play. It is not
entirely a case of circular reasoning, but it does depend on an
assumption that God is the final arbiter of human history.

B - Yes when we get right down to it ...it all comes to did God actually
speak to these people?

And despite what Bren would have us believe, when we really _do_ "get right down
to it", we see that the answer is YES, God really did "speak to these people".

Post by B.G. Kent
....and did they give that info to people who
actually "heard and understood corrrectly" enough to write it down?.

Again, the answer is 'yes'.

Post by B.G. Kent
After
that.....whose translation is correct and why is it?

That is true only for those who rely exclusively on those translations. As for
those of us who do not, we realize your question is the wrong question: of
_course_ there is no one single 'correct' translation. That is why people take
the time to learn the characteristic strengths and weaknesses of the various
translations.

Post by B.G. Kent
I'm sure proof of
certain buildings,towns,structures,mountains etc. can all be proven...that
sort of goes without saying..but we have people here who are saying things
"are" not "might be" because they believe in it or believe they must
believe in it or go to the firey gates of "hell". They then argue that
they are right without any real proof

And since when, Bren, do you even _know_ what "real proof" looks like? You
continually retort with assertions that are even _further_ away from "real
proof", while scoffing at the standards of proof that most of the NG has learned
to accept.

Yet you rejedct this standard of proof not out of superior learning, nor because
you have 'proof' that our learning is deficient, but only because you choose a
different prejudice.



[snip]