Halloween

[h***@geneva.rutgers.edu]

There's been a lot of discussion about Halloween. For some reason no
one seems to have noticed that Paul deals with a very similar issue in
the NT. The issue with Halloween is whether pagan associations mean
that we can't celebrate the holiday. The issue for Paul was whether
pagan associations meant that they couldn't eat meat. The people Paul
was talking about actually had a better case: the meat clearly had
been sacrificed, where the pagan associations with Halloween are
conjectural, and few of those who currently celebrate it would think
of those pagan associations.

Paul's answer was two-fold:

* The idols don't exist; the meat is God's; we are free to eat it.
* Not everyone understands this; we shouldn't tempt our weaker brethren
to violate their conscience.

I would say that the same is true of Halloween. As long as there is no
association with pagan worship in the minds of those doing it, there
is no problem with the holiday. All days are God's and so are all
costumes. Many Christians celebrate it in ways that commemorate
faithful Christians before us. There is no problem in this.

However I certainly wouldn't want to tempt those who associate
Halloween with paganism to celebrate it, and if I lived in close
contact with someone who had this problem I would probably abstain
myself.

Christians have often had to make judgements like this in the mission
field. At times cultural associations may make it unsafe to do things
that new Christians might associate with their pagan past. However in
other contexts there may be no such problem.

But behind Paul's details is the ideal of mutual love and support.

Rom. 14:1 Welcome those who are weak in faith, but not for the purpose
of quarreling over opinions. 2 Some believe in eating anything, while
the weak eat only vegetables. 3 Those who eat must not despise those
who abstain, and those who abstain must not pass judgment on those who
eat; for God has welcomed them. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on
servants of another? It is before their own lord that they stand or
fall. And they will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make them
stand.

Rom. 14:5 Some judge one day to be better than another, while others
judge all days to be alike. Let all be fully convinced in their own
minds. 6 Those who observe the day, observe it in honor of the Lord.
Also those who eat, eat in honor of the Lord, since they give thanks
to God; while those who abstain, abstain in honor of the Lord and give
thanks to God.

One reason that the postings about Halloween tend to produce little
sympathy is the often shrill tone. I have no problem at all with those
who associate it with paganism abstaining. However as Paul advises,
they should not use this as a motivation for condemning others, or
self-righteousness. Nor should we consider ourselves superior because
we understand the fulness of our freedom in Christ.

[Steve Hayes]

All saints day and Halloween as worship of those who past on. Jesus
clearly says LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR OWN DEAD and follow HIM ...Matthew
8:22.

All Saints Day (and its eve) has nothing to do with the "worship" of those who
have past [sic] on.

It is based on Rev 7:9-10.

Yes you are right that Halloween goes back to the days of the
Celtics and also the Druids.It's a celebration of death, and Samhain is
believed to be some type of figureassociated with the 'Lord of the
Dead"

No it doesn't.

Halloween is a day that glorifies Satan.

Read Revelation 7:9-10

Where does it say that they are glorifying Satan?

Where does it say that Satan was sitting on the throne or that the Lamb was
Satan?

Please give the source of your (dis)information.

[B.G. Kent]

All saints day and Halloween as worship of those who past on. Jesus
clearly says LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR OWN DEAD and follow HIM ...Matthew
8:22. Yes you are right that Halloween goes back to the days of the
Celtics and also the Druids.It's a celebration of death, and Samhain is
believed to be some type of figure

B - Nope..change your books. The dead are not worshipped...the dead are
remembered and honoured. It is not a celebration of death..but a
remembrance of the past Celtic year...and an honouring of the death of
those that have sacrificed for the harvest.

Samhain is not a LOrd of the Death. That old urban myth as been trotted
out more times than I care to know.... Samhain is a Gaelic word meaning
"Summers end". In the Celtic year..there are two seasons...Summer...from
May 1st to October 31 dusk. Winter is from November 1st to April 30th.


I urge you Suneejan to read up about cultural holidays around the world
from unbiased sources instead of the propaganda you are reading.

Ignorance is not a good thing.

Blessings of you seeing the light,

Bren

[B.G. Kent]

twas written,

One reason that the postings about Halloween tend to produce little
sympathy is the often shrill tone. I have no problem at all with those
who associate it with paganism abstaining. However as Paul advises,
they should not use this as a motivation for condemning others, or
self-righteousness. Nor should we consider ourselves superior because
we understand the fulness of our freedom in Christ.


B -Yes. I don't consider myself superior to anyone.
Blessings
Bren (fully free in christ..and also a pagan)

[Jani]

<***@geneva.rutgers.edu> wrote in message news:2x3Og.9395$***@trnddc02...

[]

Post by h***@geneva.rutgers.edu
However I certainly wouldn't want to tempt those who associate
Halloween with paganism to celebrate it, and if I lived in close
contact with someone who had this problem I would probably abstain
myself.

That sounds sensible. I would add that a rational approach to the issue of
neopagans celebrating the religious festival of Samhain would be for
Christians to regard it much as they would their Hindu neighbours
celebrating Diwali, or Jewish neighbours celebrating Passover. It is simply
"someone else's" religious event, and those not of that faith would treat it
with respect, but not participate in it themselves.

Jani

[suneejan]

Christians should know what this holiday represents!

***@geneva.rutgers.edu wrote:
...

Post by h***@geneva.rutgers.edu
* The idols don't exist; the meat is God's; we are free to eat it.
* Not everyone understands this; we shouldn't tempt our weaker brethren
to violate their conscience.
I would say that the same is true of Halloween. As long as there is no
association with pagan worship in the minds of those doing it, there
is no problem with the holiday. All days are God's and so are all

[Matthew Johnson]

All saints day and Halloween as worship of those who past on. Jesus
clearly says LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR OWN DEAD and follow HIM ...Matthew
8:22.

You are miquoting Christ. When he said "let the dead bury their own dead", the
first word 'dead' refers to those dead in their sins, who did not wish to follow
Christ. The _second_ dead, refers to the physically dead.

But you have also missed the meaning of the idiom "bury their dead". His father
has not died yet. The idiom means to wait until your old and infirm parent dies
and then bury him.

It is NOT reasonable to construe Mat 8:22 as a prohibition against the prayers
for the dead on All Saints' Day

[snip]

[B.G. Kent]

Post by suneejan
Christians should know what this holiday represents!

B - Yes indeed...

best to check up at http://www.witchvox.com to see what Samhain is all
about...and then do a check up on Hallowe'en and the history of it from
perhaps Wikipedia or the like.

Blessings
Bren

[Steve Hayes]

All saints day and Halloween as worship of those who past on. Jesus
clearly says LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR OWN DEAD and follow HIM ...Matthew
8:22.

All Saints Day (and its eve) has nothing to do with the "worship" of those who
have past [sic] on.

It is based on Rev 7:9-10.

Yes you are right that Halloween goes back to the days of the
Celtics and also the Druids.It's a celebration of death, and Samhain is
believed to be some type of figureassociated with the 'Lord of the
Dead"

No it doesn't.

Halloween is a day that glorifies Satan.

Read Revelation 7:9-10

Where does it say that they are glorifying Satan?

Where does it say that Satan was sitting on the throne or that the Lamb was
Satan?

Please give the source of your (dis)information.

[Chellie]

All saints day and Halloween as worship of those who past on. Jesus
clearly says LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR OWN DEAD and follow HIM ...Matthew
8:22. Yes you are right that Halloween goes back to the days of the
Celtics and also the Druids.It's a celebration of death, and Samhain is
believed to be some type of figureassociated with the 'Lord of the
Dead" Halloween is a day that glorifies Satan. What do the following
represent...Costumes Samhain was a night of demonic revelry and only

...

Reason why I don't celebrate Halloween: The Holy Bible says to abstain
from forms of evil. How does a person proclaim to be a Christian yet
celebrate a holiday that represents evil and Satan? Hmmm... I really
don't care how a "Christian" try to dress it up, justify their reasons
so they won't look bad, the fact remains there's nothing righteous nor
holy about Halloween.

[Chellie]

B.G. Kent wrote:
...

Post by B.G. Kent
B - Nope..change your books. The dead are not worshipped...the dead are
remembered and honoured. It is not a celebration of death..but a
remembrance of the past Celtic year...and an honouring of the death of
those that have sacrificed for the harvest.
Samhain is not a LOrd of the Death. That old urban myth as been trotted
out more times than I care to know.... Samhain is a Gaelic word meaning
"Summers end". In the Celtic year..there are two seasons...Summer...from
May 1st to October 31 dusk. Winter is from November 1st to April 30th.
I urge you Suneejan to read up about cultural holidays around the world
from unbiased sources instead of the propaganda you are reading.

Yes, I know about the honoring the dead and not really worshipping the
dead and what have you but my question is: why would a Christian be
involve in something like this? Jesus said let the dead bury the dead.
A love one pass on, your job is to take him/her to the
undertaker/funeral home. Read Numbers 6:6-7. You know can't even go to
a funeral? Jesus have some hard stuff. If you think about it, funerals
are for the living for the Bible says: the dead knowth nothing.

[suneejan]

I did check the site and was sadden. I will stick to the bible and
stay away from all forms of evil. 1 Thess 5:22. I will be praying for
you Bren. Also read the verse 1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the
sin of witchcraft.and stubborness is as inquity ,
and idolatry. Becuase you have rejectedthe word of the Lord... True
Christians are suppose to stay awat from sorcery,spiritists,mediums,
etc....Ex22:18, Lev 19:26, 31: Deut. 18:10 -14.

Post by B.G. Kent

Post by suneejan
Christians should know what this holiday represents!

B - Yes indeed...
best to check up at http://www.witchvox.com to see what Samhain is all
about...and then do a check up on Hallowe'en and the history of it from
perhaps Wikipedia or the like.
Blessings
Bren

[B.G. Kent]

Post by suneejan
I did check the site and was sadden. I will stick to the bible and
stay away from all forms of evil. 1 Thess 5:22. I will be praying for
you Bren. Also read the verse 1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the
sin of witchcraft.and stubborness is as inquity ,
and idolatry. Becuase you have rejectedthe word of the Lord... True
Christians are suppose to stay awat from sorcery,spiritists,mediums,
etc....Ex22:18, Lev 19:26, 31: Deut. 18:10 -14.

B - I went to the site and did not find evil. I found lots of lovely
people who practise many different paths and faiths and who are..for the
most part...are uplifting and joyful and loving.

Pray for me if you like Suneejan...but please don't make it to force me to
be like you.....thankyou. The witchcraft portion of the Bible? well we can
thank King James for that one. I personally follow Christ and not
Jehovah...so not one for the Old Testament as much.

As for "rejecting the word of the Lord" I have done nothing of the kind.
You are baring falsehoods against me my friend.

I will pray for you too...but only if you give me your permission. I dont'
try and use force against another.


Blessings
Bren

[B.G. Kent]

Post by Chellie
Reason why I don't celebrate Halloween: The Holy Bible says to abstain
from forms of evil. How does a person proclaim to be a Christian yet
celebrate a holiday that represents evil and Satan? Hmmm... I really
don't care how a "Christian" try to dress it up, justify their reasons
so they won't look bad, the fact remains there's nothing righteous nor
holy about Halloween.

B - and yes..that is your opinion. I find the remembrance of my ancestors,
the honouring of their life and the honouring of the turning of the
seasons, the connection to my Celtic ancestors...very righteous and very
Holy...and we call it Samhain. In Mexico they have the Day of the Dead
around the same time as our Samhain...on this day..they honour their
ancestors...take a picnic to the cemetery and remember their loved ones.
They are very Christian in Mexico. Death is not evil....death is an
illusion....or a doorway to another energetic realm.

I.M.O
Bren

[B.G. Kent]

Post by Chellie
Yes, I know about the honoring the dead and not really worshipping the
dead and what have you but my question is: why would a Christian be
involve in something like this? Jesus said let the dead bury the dead.

B - Why would a Christian be interested in this? or involved with this? We
have funerals...we bury our dead and are far from being dead when we do
this. Why would'nt there be various ways to honour and remember? We also
have Memorials...that's honouring someone's life ....why do many
Christians do this?

Post by Chellie
A love one pass on, your job is to take him/her to the
undertaker/funeral home. Read Numbers 6:6-7. You know can't even go to
a funeral? Jesus have some hard stuff. If you think about it, funerals
are for the living for the Bible says: the dead knowth nothing.

B - I tend to go within to talk to God and listen to God...and the Bible
is an adjunct to this....not the primary.

I.M.O
Blessings
Bren

[Chellie]

Post by B.G. Kent
Death is not evil....death is an
illusion....or a doorway to another energetic realm.

No death isn't evil. But as true Christians, you shall not honor nor
celebrate the dead. Read Numbers 6:6-7. It's very plain and God
commanded this. If you don't understand this scripture, it's because
you don't want to. That's why in my faith we don't go to funerals. I am
not going to make excuses or rather justify celebrating/honoring the
dead.

[Chellie]

Post by B.G. Kent
Death is not evil....death is an
illusion....or a doorway to another energetic realm.

No death isn't evil. But as true Christians, you shall not honor nor
celebrate the dead. Read Numbers 6:6-7. It's very plain and God
commanded this. If you don't understand this scripture, it's because
you don't want to. That's why in my faith we don't go to funerals. I am
not going to make excuses or rather justify celebrating/honoring the
dead.

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by Chellie

Post by B.G. Kent
Death is not evil....death is an
illusion....or a doorway to another energetic realm.

No death isn't evil. But as true Christians, you shall not honor nor
celebrate the dead.

True Christians do not issue blanket rulings like this, based on a
_pathetic_ misreading of Scripture.

Post by Chellie
Read Numbers 6:6-7.

Have _you_ read it yourself? Did you even _notice_ it was a command to
Nazirites (Num 6:2)?

Post by Chellie
It's very plain and God commanded this.

It is very plain that it is NOT a comandment against honoring the
dead. It is ALSO very plain that it ONLY applies to Nazirites, and
even to them ONLY in the time of their "special vow".

Post by Chellie
If you don't understand this scripture, it's because you don't want
to.

Considering that it was you who misunderstood the command to a
Nazirite as a command to all against honoring the dead, I would say
that applies to you.

Post by Chellie
That's why in my faith we don't go to funerals.

Then your 'faith' is no faith at all.

Post by Chellie
I am not going to make excuses or rather justify celebrating/honoring
the dead.

Instead, you make excuses for something much worse.

[Chellie]

Post by B.G. Kent
B - Why would a Christian be interested in this? or involved with this? We
have funerals...we bury our dead and are far from being dead when we do
this. Why would'nt there be various ways to honour and remember? We also
have Memorials...that's honouring someone's life ....why do many
Christians do this?
B - I tend to go within to talk to God and listen to God...and the Bible
is an adjunct to this....not the primary.

Read Numbers 6:6-7. It's very plain and God commanded this. If you
don't understand this scripture, it's because you don't want to. A love
one pass on, your job is to take him/her to the undertaker/funeral
home. You know can't even go to a funeral? God has some hard stuff to
obey. If you think about it, funerals are for the living for the Bible
says: the dead knowth nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

You say you tend to listen to God well the Bible is God's word (Matthew
24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)

Striving for perfection in Christ,
Chellie

[B.G. Kent]

Post by Chellie

Post by B.G. Kent
Death is not evil....death is an
illusion....or a doorway to another energetic realm.

No death isn't evil. But as true Christians, you shall not honor nor
celebrate the dead. Read Numbers 6:6-7. It's very plain and God
commanded this.

B - The book may say this...but prove that it is God.




If you don't understand this scripture, it's because

Post by Chellie
you don't want to.

B - really? you can't prove that either.



That's why in my faith we don't go to funerals. I am

Post by Chellie
not going to make excuses or rather justify celebrating/honoring the
dead.

B - Well bully for you....but we don't all worship in your way...vive le
difference.

I.M.O
Bren

[B.G. Kent]

Post by Chellie

Post by B.G. Kent
B - Why would a Christian be interested in this? or involved with this? We
have funerals...we bury our dead and are far from being dead when we do
this. Why would'nt there be various ways to honour and remember? We also
have Memorials...that's honouring someone's life ....why do many
Christians do this?
B - I tend to go within to talk to God and listen to God...and the Bible
is an adjunct to this....not the primary.

Read Numbers 6:6-7. It's very plain and God commanded this. If you
don't understand this scripture, it's because you don't want to.

B - Prove first that it is Gods words.

Post by Chellie
You say you tend to listen to God well the Bible is God's word (Matthew
24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)

B - Proof please. I await your proof....Oh yes...and money...money would
be nice thanks.

Post by Chellie
Striving for perfection in Christ,
Chellie

B - Striving always for truth,

Bren

[Eric Bohn]

Post by Chellie
Read Numbers 6:6-7. You know can't even go to
a funeral? Jesus have some hard stuff.

Which is why it's a good idea not to quote scripture without an
adequate understanding of the fullness of it.

Don't expect Christians to abandon thousands of years of tradition
because satan wants to hijack the holiday. Not everyone who celebrates
Halloween does so by putting on horns and weilding a pitchfork.

[Chellie]

Post by Eric Bohn
Which is why it's a good idea not to quote scripture without an
adequate understanding of the fullness of it.
Don't expect Christians to abandon thousands of years of tradition
because satan wants to hijack the holiday. Not everyone who celebrates
Halloween does so by putting on horns and weilding a pitchfork.

I don't celebrate Halloween nor do I wish to. Continue on with your
lifestyle. :-)


Striving to perfection in Jesus Christ,
Chellie

[Chellie]

Post by B.G. Kent
B - I tend to go within to talk to God and listen to God...and the Bible
is an adjunct to this....not the primary.

Ahh so you say...


Striving to perfection in Jesus Christ,
Chellie

[Chellie]

Matthew Johnson wrote:

Me: No death isn't evil. But as true Christians, you shall not honor
nor

Post by Matthew Johnson

Post by Chellie
celebrate the dead.

You: True Christians do not issue blanket rulings like this, based on a

Post by Matthew Johnson
_pathetic_ misreading of Scripture.

Me: Read Numbers 6:6-7.

You: Have _you_ read it yourself? Did you even _notice_ it was a
command to

Post by Matthew Johnson
Nazirites (Num 6:2)?

Me: It's very plain and God commanded this.

You: It is very plain that it is NOT a comandment against honoring the

Post by Matthew Johnson
dead. It is ALSO very plain that it ONLY applies to Nazirites, and
even to them ONLY in the time of their "special vow".

Me: If you don't understand this scripture, it's because you don't want

Post by Matthew Johnson

Post by Chellie
to.

You: Considering that it was you who misunderstood the command to a

Post by Matthew Johnson
Nazirite as a command to all against honoring the dead, I would say
that applies to you.

Me: That's why in my faith we don't go to funerals.

You: Then your 'faith' is no faith at all.

Me: I am not going to make excuses or rather justify
celebrating/honoring

Post by Matthew Johnson

Post by Chellie
the dead.

You: Instead, you make excuses for something much worse.

I read the Bible on Numbers 6:6-7 -- again. Hmm as a Nazarite... So
because the Israelites made a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves
unto the LORD, the assumption is that we today Christians are not to
abide by this commandment of God to not make ourselves unclean by
coming to the dead since this vow was only to the Israelites and since
are not Nazarites. Correct me if I am wrong don't want to misunderstand
you. It's mentioned of Nazarites in Lamentations 4:7 "Her Nazarites
were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk, they were more ruddy
in body than rubies, their polishing was of sapphire:". Hmm sounds like
God's people to me. To be pure as snow, don't sound bad. In Judges
13:5, Samson was a "Nazarite unto God from the womb". Now out of
curiousity since you are defending the right to celebrate Halloween (so
it seems), why do you do it and on what authority? This question is for
all to answer matter of fact. Please all reply soon.


Striving to perfection in Jesus Christ,
Chellie

[Chellie]

B.G. Kent wrote:
You: The book may say this...but prove that it is God.
Me: If you don't understand this scripture, it's because you don't want
to.
You: really? you can't prove that either.
Me: That's why in my faith we don't go to funerals. I am not going to
make excuses or rather justify celebrating/honoring the dead.
You: Well bully for you....but we don't all worship in your way...vive
le difference.

So why call yourself a Christian (if you are) if you don't believe
that's God's word? If you are not calling yourself a Christian or a
true believer of God, then it doesn't matter what the Bible says
really. But if you are calling yourself a Christian:

The Bible says "he that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said,
out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water (John 7:38). Living
water, eternal life. You don't want that? BUT you must believe as the
scripture has said. You said you want proof. Jesus said "blessed are
they that have not seen, and yet have believed" (John 20:29). Also the
Bible says "now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the
evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). Jesus said "And said,
Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little
children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew
18:3). Do you understand this scripture? Jesus isn't saying be
childish, He's saying be as children for when you tell them something
they take it at face value without question. We adults know that
there's no such thing as Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny BUT who
believe this? CHILDREN! Now there are older children who do not but the
younger ones do. Most children believe anything you tell them and you
know this to be true.


Striving to perfection in Jesus Christ,
Chellie