10 Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

[b***@allvantage.com]

Re: 10 Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about
the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a
Christian.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered
prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think
that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have fail=

ed

to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking
in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the excepti=

on

of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival
sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet
consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the
scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find
nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting
in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about
gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy
Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed,
came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to
Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah
slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination
of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune
God.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people
evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical
claim that we were created from dirt.
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by oth=

er

religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

Hello,

Yes, looks like fundamentalists do not really follow the teachings of
their professed leader Jesus, do they. But again, just calling oneself
a Christian doesn't make one so. As Jesus put it at Lu 6:46,

"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (NIV)

Kinda sounds like Jesus wants his servants to OBEY his commands, not
just believe only. Yes, I'm sure that is what Jesus wants.

There really are true Christians out there, who are reasonable as well
as loving towards all, regardless of their religious beliefs. After
all, Jesus said to preach to all people, not just those favoring his
teachings. Mt 28:19,20,

"19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and
teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am
with you always, to the very end of the age." (NIV)


Sincerely, James

**If you wish to have a discussion with me, please use email since I
do not follow ng threads

***********************************
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[b***@juno.com]

Re: 10 Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about
the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a
Christian.

This problem is easily remedied. Just start reading the Book. Not hard
at all.

I personally like to listen to an audio Bible on my Ipod, while I am
driving around in my car. That is the easiest way I have found to
saturate my mind with scripture.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered
prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think
that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

There is no such thing as a "failed" prayer. There is only genuine
prayer in submission to God's will, and false so-called "prayer" which
is only submitted to man's will. Any prayer that is truly submitted to
God's will will succeed every time.

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have fail=

ed

to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking
in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

History, geology, biology, and physics prove God exists. Also,
Charismatic churches provide empirical proof that God exists as well.
The two are not in opposition, but complement one another.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the excepti=

on

of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival
sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet
consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

The Bible supports the idea that all mankind will eventually make it
to heaven, IMHO.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the
scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find
nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting
in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

The Bible supports an old earth. No need to look for loopholes.

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about
gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy
Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed,
came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

Since the Holy Spirit holds every atom in the entire universe in his
hand, and thus on a deep level helps EVERY woman to get pregnant, it
is not that shocking to say that he also helped Mary. Although in a
much deeper, divine sense, obviously.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to
Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah
slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination
of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

God can do whatever he wants with us. He has perfect knowledge
(omniscience) which means he knows who deserves to be killed. He
determined that the Egyptians deserved death. He has every right to
both make that determination and carry it out.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune
God.

The Trinity is kind of like Quantum Physics. Contrary to our 3-
dimensional mind, but still true.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people
evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical
claim that we were created from dirt.

The Bible says that our PHYSICAL bodies were made from dirt, but not
our SPIRITUAL component.

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by oth=

er

religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

Hey, the truth is true. Jehovah God is the only God. All the other
ones are fakes.

[l***@hotmail.com]

Post by b***@juno.com
The Bible supports the idea that all mankind will eventually make it
to heaven, IMHO.

I think not. Christ during His earthly ministry spoke more about the
reality of eternal damnation than He did about the prospects of
eternal bliss. Both universalism and annihilationism make God out to
be both the author of confusion when a normative reading of the
Scriptures declare both the reality and the eternal existence of
spiritual separation from God and His blessings.

After all, was is particularly good about the good news of Jesus
Christ if it doesn't have historical significance and import? The glib
shouldn't be "Let's eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die," but
rather, "Let's eat, drink and be merry because ultimately it matters
not whether we efface the Name of The Sovereign Creator."

[l***@hotmail.com]

Post by b***@allvantage.com

Re: 10 Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about
the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a
Christian.

I do not discount ignorance among conservative Christians today, but I
would point out it is far less than those who follow other systems. I
know for a fact that most graduates of RC seminaries know less bible
than do most elders at fundamentalist churches. I know for a fact that
Protestants as a whole are ignorant of the Scriptures even more than
they are of the doctrines which the Reformation was founded.

Post by b***@allvantage.com

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered
prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think
that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

The "remnant' has ever and will always be the minority. It is God who
causes the growth.

Post by b***@allvantage.com

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have fail=

ed

to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking
in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

"Modern science" is the new priesthood of the religion of man. The
"idiot rolling around on the floor" is a very extreme view of
Fundamentalism. There are RC's who are equally charismatic in their
emphasis.

Post by b***@allvantage.com

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the excepti=

on

of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival
sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet
consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

The whole supposition of this argument is faulty. It is not the
sharing of our "beliefs" as defined to mean, "opinions," but rather
the normative reading of the Scriptures from a historical/grammatical
hermeneutic. If the Scriptures declare that the one who does not
except the exclusive sayings of Christ is going to spend his eternity
in damnation and torment, then we simply declare it. Our declaration
is only a reiteration of what God has already determined.

Post by b***@allvantage.com

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the
scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find
nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting
in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

Scientifically, -real science- favors both a young earth and
creationism. Is it without any difficulty? No. But there are far few
resolves necessitated that the model proposed by evolutionary
theories, which, BTW, are constantly evolving themselves.

But here again, the basic tenant of the argument is unchristian. The
mighty task of the Christian theologian is to discover the attributes
of God and then to exhibit them according to Truth. The communion of
the attributes of God form an interwoven and interdependent communion
of facts and forces which harmonize in the Person of God. And omission
or slighting of any, a dis- proportionate emphasis upon one over
another can but only lead to fundamental errors of supposition and
resolve. Looking at objection #6 immediately following, I will but add
a quote....

Post by b***@allvantage.com

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about
gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy
Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed,
came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

"The failure which we have just noted in an abnormal emphasis of God's
attributes may be corrected by the communion of attributes. Pantheism,
deism, materialism, idealism, and evolution reveal abnormalities in
the character of God to which they subscribe their belief. The errors
of all false conceptions of God could be corrected by an explanation
of His true character as it is completely and systematically balances
by the communion of these elements of His nature. Christian theology
is the only field which gives proper and proportionate thought to the
character of God as a product of His attributes." [Morris Roach, "The
Personality of God," an unpublished PhD thesis as quoted by Chafer in
"Systematic Theology, Vol 1. p 223-4.]

Post by b***@allvantage.com

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to
Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah
slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination
of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

The whole history of human suffering finds its source in not
completely following God's commands. In that Abraham did not by faith
wait upon God to give him a male heir, the history of the Jews have
ever since suffered for. In that Israel itself did not adequately
drive out the pagans of their land once again did come back to bite
them as their children enslaved themselves to the so called gods of
pagans left in their land.

Post by b***@allvantage.com

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune
God.

Because Trinitarianism has no relationship to polytheism.
Trinitarianism is founded upon and rooted in and an ardent defender of
monotheism. That God is uni-plural is HIS revelation to us. He is not
something we can discover by intense inquiry. He, of a necessity, must
reveal Himself for He is wholly other than us. Beginning in Genesis
and ending in Revelation, the Scriptures have declared the
uni-plurality of the Godhead. No other system of "truth" has ever had
a resolve for the uni-verse's dilemma of the "many and the one," the
"unity in the midst of all the diversity." Our very universe is
uni-plural and trinitarian. Science itself terms it as being the
"space-mass-time continuum." Time is past, present and future. Mass/
energy is solid, liquid, gas while space is X-Y-Z. Trinitarianism
offers a resolve to the philosophic dilemma that no other system even
remotely suggests.

Post by b***@allvantage.com

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people
evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical
claim that we were created from dirt.

"God said it, that settles it." Whether or not I believe it does not
play in to verification. In point of fact, if you have no absolute
standard by which to adjudicate, then all is relative. We have the
very Word of God which testifies to itself to all who will but believe
it.

Post by b***@allvantage.com

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by oth=

er

religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

Even rationalistically, there can be but one God. Infinity cannot
share itself with another.

Post by b***@allvantage.com
Yes, looks like fundamentalists do not really follow the teachings of
their professed leader Jesus, do they. But again, just calling oneself
a Christian doesn't make one so. As Jesus put it at Lu 6:46,
"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (NIV)

"Doing" does not make one a follower of Christ. Believing makes one a
true follower. The gospel is elemental. Nothing can be added to it. It
is the call to all men everywhere but to believe in and on the LORD
Jesus Christ and His offer of salvation. This is the stumbling stone
to the Jew and foolishness to the pagan.

Post by b***@allvantage.com
Kinda sounds like Jesus wants his servants to OBEY his commands, not
just believe only. Yes, I'm sure that is what Jesus wants.

Grace is not about A-B-C formulas. "I delight to do Thy will" is the
only resolve to "His commandments are not burdensome." It is not
about performance, it is about reciprocal love. You do not know God
because you have no persception of His grace.

Post by b***@allvantage.com
There really are true Christians out there, who are reasonable as well
as loving towards all, regardless of their religious beliefs. After
all, Jesus said to preach to all people, not just those favoring his
teachings. Mt 28:19,20,

Yet it is also write, "Before Abraham was, I AM." Also, we are called
to place our faith in Jesus exactly as we place our faith in God (Jn
14:1). This would be monsterous if Jesus was not a member of the
Godhead.

Thomas used exactly the same discription afford the Father in
Revelation chapters 1, 4 & 5, "LORD and God." The Greek is exactly the
same. If only God is immutable, "For I, the Lord, do not change,"
(Mal. 3:6 "), then for it to be ascribed, "Jesus Christ is the same
yesterday and today, yes and forever," (Heb. 13:8 ) is only to state
that Jesus is indeed, Immanuel, as Matthew himself translates, "God
with us."

Post by b***@allvantage.com
Sincerely, James
**If you wish to have a discussion with me, please use email since I
do not follow ng threads

Drive by shooting is a cowardly act.

[B.G. Kent]

Re: 10 Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about
the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a
Christian.

B - I agree with a lot of this....but think it is simply just an
intolerance to others...to the concept that they or their pastor may just
be wrong...and a bigotry that boggles the mind. When one is raised in a
faith that preaches "believe or die in Hell" and after-death-threats are
a-plenty and if you question anything that it must be the devil creeping
in ..you really are held in a kind of brain-washed straight jacket.Your
faith comes out of fear and not really deep love and trust in God..you
fear "the other" ...."those not like us". I find more of anti-Christ in
this than Christ personally.

I believe in Christ...in Jesus...in God ...because simply "I do". I love
them...simply because "I do". I accept others as my brothers and sisters
who are all on the road to learning and graduating from this school. I
care little what faith they adhere to as long as they love one
another..treat others as themselves and are kind and inclusive and truly
see themselves as not better..not worse..but just as good as.
I don't believe in Hell...not the literal kind anyway. I believe that you
make whatever life you have a Hell or not..dependant on your love. I
believe that all go to Heaven eventually. I believe in a kind and loving
God....I have no fear of God because I have perfect love and "perfect love
casts out all fear". I believe that the Bible ...like other scriptures of
other faiths contain some truth..but not all of the truth. I believe we
all have a long way to go.

I am not a fundamentalist Christian...the only thing fundamental about me
is the love I have for others.

Bren

[l***@hotmail.com]

Post by B.G. Kent
When one is raised in a
faith that preaches "believe or die in Hell" and after-death-threats are
a-plenty and if you question anything that it must be the devil creeping
in ..you really are held in a kind of brain-washed straight jacket.

Ignorance of the facts does not erase the reality. God, by definition
is both infinite and holy. An infinitely holy and sovereign God cannot
be just if He does not judge the rebel. If you do away with both the
existence and the personal reality of hell, you besmudge two things
without ever giving proper thought to it. 1) The character of God and
2) the dignity of man.

When people espouse such contempt for Divine accountability, it
illustrates two facts: 1) sin blinds mens eyes and hearts; 2) those
who advocate such things have never actually investigated either
the nature of God nor the reality of human existence. Of the later,
what is meant is that experience does not support such idealogy.
Whe wrong occurs, justice is demanded. The is the moral difference
in the make-up of man being made after the image of God. Both man
and history have significance. Cause and effect are not an illussion.

Post by B.G. Kent
Your
faith comes out of fear and not really deep love and trust in God..you
fear "the other" ...."those not like us". I find more of anti-Christ in
this than Christ personally.

I've asked you repeatedly and you repeatedly offer no answer. "What
then do you do with your guilt?" The question isn't "Do you have moral
guilt?" That is both understood and a given. All of humanity carries
the burden of sin. The question is, what do you do about it? Playing
ostrich is a fools game. Reality is serious. The modern fool lives his
life like "This is it. This is reality." But inwardly, often too
calous now to hear its voice deep within, man knows the fear of God.

Post by B.G. Kent
I believe in Christ...in Jesus...in God ...because simply "I do".

But your "belief" is not belief at all. It is a baseless, opinionated
hope that has no substantial standard on which to verify itself. You
reject both the God and the Christ of the Bible and make up your own.
You have chosen to live a lie, to live in a dream world of your own
making. It is pure self-delusion. You have not defended your opinions
when called out because there is no means available to you to do so
because your so called faith exists only as a fantasy of the mind.

"The sleeper must awaken!"

Post by B.G. Kent
I love
them...simply because "I do". I accept others as my brothers and sisters
who are all on the road to learning and graduating from this school. I
care little what faith they adhere to as long as they love one
another..

This sort of idealism of the '60's died a quick death. "Love the one
you're with" was the moto of that era. I lived it. And it was
experientially a dead end as far as existential reality is concerned.
Today it is but a faint memor, a nostalgistic dying ember.

Post by B.G. Kent
treat others as themselves and are kind and inclusive and truly
see themselves as not better..not worse..but just as good as.

And here you expose the root of your self-deception. Man is NOT
inherently "good." Again, you bury your head in the sand to real
living if you suppose this to be true. And because you misdefine
everything, we are not here discussing whether or not individuals
can express acts of mercy or kindness. Evil has many faces
and the worst of them all is the kindly religionist. No good deed
goes undeclared.

Post by B.G. Kent
I don't believe in Hell...not the literal kind anyway.

Then you unequivacally announce to the whole world that you deny
Jesus of the bible and the bible itself.

Post by B.G. Kent
I believe that you
make whatever life you have a Hell or not..dependant on your love.

You confuse love with sentimentality. It's not that your are
optimistic. It's that you have a misty optic. You are vision impared
because you are yet blinded by your sin because you have yet to
confess the Christ of the Bible as both your LORD and Savior. You
remain your own lord because you refuse to accept what the Scriptures
assert as being true. When the Scriptures assert a thing to be true,
it should be received by every true believer. Should there seem to be
conflict of ideas, the fact remains that the Biblical account of each
item in the consideration is *true.* The perplexity of the issue is
attributable to insuffcient understanding by sin clouded minds of men
not that an all Sovereign God has declared it to be so.

Post by B.G. Kent
I believe that all go to Heaven eventually.

And equally people have declared themselves to be God incarnate.
The proof in the pudding is how can you substantiate your "belief."
Man was created reasonable. How can you reasonable substantiate
this hope of yours other than it is just that, an unsubstaniated hope.

Post by B.G. Kent
I believe in a kind and loving God....

As does everyone in this NG but we also believe in a holy and just God
who is the Sovereign of the Universe. "In that day you shall surely
die." Eve was deceived. How are you different or better than she? Eve
was ushered out of the garden. Alienation / death is always the net
result of sin. Sin brings darkness because God is light and light
rejected only instills darkness. The Scriptures declare that hell was
created for Satan and his angels. It was not created for men. Men just
rather chose to "reign in hell than serve in heaven." They are slaves
of Satan and they are willfully disobedient. All men are born to this
state. The only thing that separates men is the gracious gift of God
-faith in Jesus the Christ. . . of the Bible, not of vain
imaginations. Love cannot be the governing attribute of God. It is
never declared to be such. Rather its is "Holy, holy, holy, LORD God
Almighty." God's character is good because He is holy, not because He
is love. The doting mothers of this generation have illustrated quite
well that "love" is not enough. Love must be tempered by holiness
otherwise it's nothing short of self-indulgence.

Post by B.G. Kent
I have no fear of God because I have perfect love and "perfect love
casts out all fear".

"All that glitters is not of gold!"

Post by B.G. Kent
I believe that the Bible .. . .

No you don't otherwise you would amend the statement by stating-

Post by B.G. Kent
. . .like other scriptures of
other faiths contain some truth..but not all of the truth. I believe we
all have a long way to go.

"We" don't have the capacity to "go" any where. This is just a
disquised humanism, a system of merit. The Christ of the Bible
declares that He has done it all *for us.* We have but to believe the
one and only Gospel message of the Bible. There is no second or third
way. There is but ONE Way. All roads may lead to Rome but they do not
lead to heaven. Remember, the Bible you just said you believed
declares that "broad is the way to destruction and many are those who
enter thereby." Christ call is to the narrow gate. "I AM the door."

Post by B.G. Kent
I am not a fundamentalist Christian...

You're not even a Christian let alone a fundamentalist.

Post by B.G. Kent
the only thing fundamental about me
is the love I have for others.

Your love is selfish. Whether you admit it to yourself of not the
ultimate goal of all your so called "love for others" is that it makes
you feel good, worthy, self-edifying. It warms your sensibilities. It
makes you think that "See, I merit God's attention." You, like so many
others, think that you deserve to get into God's heaven because you
are basically a good and loving person. But when the disguise is
pulled away, you never did anything for the glory of God but ever and
only for the glory of Brenda. "There is none that does good. No not
one."

Wake up, Brenda. Hear His call. He is calling you from the Cross.
There is NO other Way of salvation. His Way is the narrow way. His Way
in the True Way. ALL other ways are delusions that lead you straight
to what Christ died to save you from, eternal damnation. The greater
the light rejected, the greater the darkness.

[s***@googlemail.com]

One Christian calling another Christian self-delusional. That is pure
comic genius.

Post by l***@hotmail.com

Post by B.G. Kent
I believe in Christ...in Jesus...in God ...because simply "I do".

But your "belief" is not belief at all. It is a baseless, opinionated
hope that has no substantial standard on which to verify itself. You
reject both the God and the Christ of the Bible and make up your own.
You have chosen to live a lie, to live in a dream world of your own
making. It is pure self-delusion. You have not defended your opinions
when called out because there is no means available to you to do so
because your so called faith exists only as a fantasy of the mind.
"The sleeper must awaken!"

[B.G. Kent]

Post by s***@googlemail.com
One Christian calling another Christian self-delusional. That is pure
comic genius.

Post by l***@hotmail.com
"The sleeper must awaken!"

B - How true.
It happens here a lot however...one Christian telling another who has the
hottest hell....who has the "right" version. Where is the humility? where
is the admittance of "I'm trying as best I can but I might not be
correct?" Doesn't the opinion of "I may be incorrect" seem more honest and
real than any statement made about "what Jesus said" or "what God said"?
It seems to be that there are two camps...those of "I have to say what is
told me to say or I may not go to heaven!" (as if God can be fooled)and
"I'm trying to understand and will continue to but I don't have the
answers"

Reach deep inside yourself and you will find that you are probably in one
or the other. I'm in the latter.

I.M.O.,

Bren

[l***@hotmail.com]

Post by s***@googlemail.com
One Christian calling another Christian self-delusional. That is pure
comic genius.

Either there is True Truth or there is only left to us, relativistic
"truth." We live our lives as if True Truth exists. It is only when
"religion" demands an exclusivity does ridicule come. You get on an
airplane believing that the law of aerodynamics is absolute -put
enough air under those wings and the plane will lift. However, when
Jesus declares that there is but one way to stand acceptable before
God, then people get all upset.

Because propositional truth is declared in the Bible, doctrines have
real meaning and consequence when they are denied. In that Brenda
does not believe in the Christ presented in the Bible, she is not a
Christian, but has an idol made after her own image. Doctrine does
divide.