Was "Re: There is no God, Enjoy your life"

[James]

Re: There is no God, Enjoy your life

I saw this ad from the TV program that featuring change of western
culture. The ad came to me with shock. Is it really that serious in
western countries?

There's some debate on this subject. Rodney Stark recently wrote a
book that looks at statistics in the US over time, and doesn't think
there's much decline. But his view is unusual. Here's a review that
will give you at least some of the data. It's from a "secular
humanist" group, but it will give you pointers to many of the data
sources: http://secularhumanism.org/greg-paul-baylor.pdf
My personal feeling is that belief is going down. Not so much the
number of people who will tell you that in some sense they believe in
God, but the number of people who belief in standard Christian
beliefs, and are actually involved in the practice of Christianity. As
far as I can tell, there's not much difference in actual belief and
practice between conservatives and liberals now, except that
conservatives reject homosexuality. Given their other beliefs, I have
to wonder whether the rejection of homosexuality is actually based on
the Bible. (Note: I'm not talking about conservative participants
here, who I believe are actual practicing conservative Christians. I'm
talking about the general mass of members of supposedly conservative
churches.)

Hello,

Very simply put, if people call themselves 'Christian', they are
required to obey the Bible. (2 Ti 3:16) And the Bible clearly opposes
the homosexual lifestyle. (Ro 1:26,27; 1 Co 6:9)

Thus genuine Christians can be distinguished from professed
'Christians' by how they follow God's written word, the Holy Bible,
which includes the opposition to homosexuality.


Sincerely, James

If you wish to have a discussion with me, please use email since I do
not follow all conversations in ng threads

[DKleinecke]

Post by James
Very simply put, if people call themselves 'Christian', they are
required to obey the Bible. (2 Ti 3:16)

As stated that is a silly statement. Second Timothy only says, at the
most, that "all scripture" is inspired.

If we were required to obey the Bible we would all have to hang
ourselves (2 Samuel 17:23) or something else equally
counterproductive.

And, of course, the letter to Timothy only claims the Old Testament (I
will ignore the problem of defining what the Old Testament means) is
inspired. Assuming Paul wrote the letter nothing, except, perhaps,
some his letters existed at the time.

[d***@aol.com]

Post by DKleinecke

Post by James
Very simply put, if people call themselves 'Christian', they are
required to obey the Bible. (2 Ti 3:16)

As stated that is a silly statement. Second Timothy only says, at the
most, that "all scripture" is inspired.
If we were required to obey the Bible we would all have to hang
ourselves (2 Samuel 17:23) or something else equally
counterproductive.
And, of course, the letter to Timothy only claims the Old Testament (I
will ignore the problem of defining what the Old Testament means) is
inspired. Assuming Paul wrote the letter nothing, except, perhaps,
some his letters existed at the time.

God does nothing that is not from love, if He wishes us to avoid
behaviors it is because they harm us or our neighbor in some way. Does
James (the one posting) obey all the dietary laws? Likely not, many of
the prohibitions are not of things that would harm us now. I think
though, the jury is still out on the question of same sex relations, I
would not judge, but I would caution. There may, after all, be
something spiritually harmful there, nevertheless we are commanded to
love people, even if they are wrong (again, I would not claim to
know.) I do know that at least one homosexual Christian was a great
blessing to me, she helped me deal with very intense issues (in an on
line group) when my wife died. Perhaps we Christians are a bit
preoccupied with sexual issues even while we ignore the charity that
was much more often the focus of Christ's ministry (and Paul's for
that matter)

Daryl

[a***@joe.net]

Post by d***@aol.com
God does nothing that is not from love, if He wishes us to avoid
behaviors it is because they harm us or our neighbor in some way.

I agree this is often the case, but we cannot ignore His justice and
holiness. He will not tolerate sin, and this is not solely because He loves
us, but because that is in inherent part of His very nature.

As far as I can tell, what *we* do should always be motivated by love for
God and/or our fellow human beings - but too often that is not the case as

Post by d***@aol.com
Perhaps we Christians are a bit
preoccupied with sexual issues even while we ignore the charity that
was much more often the focus of Christ's ministry (and Paul's for
that matter)

Absolutely. We are much more hard on other people's sins than our own. It
should be the other way around. Jesus did not come to the world to condemn
the world, but rather so that through Him the world might be saved. Our
message to sinners (and ALL of us are sinners in this life) should not be to
condemn them but to offer them the hope of forgiveness and redemption
through Christ.


Joe

[news]

Post by DKleinecke

Post by James
Very simply put, if people call themselves 'Christian', they are
required to obey the Bible. (2 Ti 3:16)

As stated that is a silly statement. Second Timothy only says, at the
most, that "all scripture" is inspired.

B - I think what the statement really means is "you have to obey the bible
the way I do and understand it the way I do".....that has gone the way of
the Pope and Monks being the only ones who could read...we can all read
and interpret as we may now.

Bren

[a***@joe.net]

Post by James
Hello,
Very simply put, if people call themselves 'Christian', they are
required to obey the Bible. (2 Ti 3:16) And the Bible clearly opposes
the homosexual lifestyle. (Ro 1:26,27; 1 Co 6:9)

True enough . . . but it opposes many other kinds of sin, not just this one.
And it commands us to love sinners. Maybe it's just me but I don't get the
impression that many folks in the homosexual community feel genuinely loved
and appreciated and valued by conservative Christians. We are not shy about
condeming *their* sin - because we think it's icky and gross - but somehow
God's message of love and repentance is not getting through; only His
condemnation of those who do not repent. Furthermore, while we are focused
on other people's sin, we tend not to give nearly enough attention to the
only kind for which we are directly responsible: our own.

Post by James
Thus genuine Christians can be distinguished from professed
'Christians' by how they follow God's written word, the Holy Bible,
which includes the opposition to homosexuality.

It also includes opposition to slavery, tyranny, war, theft, fraud, rape,
adultery, and many other outward sins. Perhaps more importantly is its
opposition to inward sins: pride, greed, lust, envy, judgmentalism. But you
can sum it all up in the two great commandments: to love God with all our
being, and love our fellow human beings as ourselves.

Are we truly doing this? If we are, we should have no desire to judge or
condemn others for their sin; we should instead try to love (not just
preach) them into the Kingdom. And if we are not, then we need to clean up
our own lives and our own hearts first. EITHER WAY, we have preached more
than enough damnation and hellfire on other people. And not nearly enough
love. That doesn't mean we should overcorrect, as some do, by compromising
on biblical truth. God sets high standards for us, in all areas,
particularly our heart life (of which sexuality is a part). No one lives up
to those standards. All sin and fall short of God's glory. But forgiveness
and cleansing, among other things (1 John 1:9) are His gift to those who are
willing to repent. Those of us who understand this truth have the duty, and
the privilege, to use it to lift people up - NOT tear them down. Jesus is
the only one among us with any right to condemn, but He said He did not come
to condemn the world, but rather to seek and to save those who are lost.


Joe

[Steve Hayes]

Re: Was "Re: There is no God, Enjoy your life"

IF that's what it WAS, WHAT IS IT NOW?

We don't care what a message used to be about -- we want to know what it's
about NOW to see if it's worth reading.