Discussion:
Just a book?
(too old to reply)
l***@hotmail.com
2006-08-14 03:58:13 UTC
Permalink
Just a Book? Part 1 of 2

In weeks gone by, Brenda has commented that the bible is just another
book. She maintains that her spirituality is gleaned from any and all
sources but is never subject to just one book, even if it be proven
that book was Divinely inspired. On SRC-BS, another poster has made
the comment that she has freed herself from the bible and now is living
according to the spirit. Therefore, in this thread, Iwould like to ask
the contributors to try and hold our discussion to the nature of
revelation/"divine light" and its specific application as to the
Christian Scriptures (omitting the Apocrypha & Pseudepigrapha).

So, where do we start? Perhaps if we begin with a distinguishing of
terms with the aim of stating what is and what is not authoritative in
the life of the believer.

What it isn't.

1) It isn't emotional. Everyone is capable in one capacity or another
to be moved by things related to "religion." Many earlier followers of
Jesus are examples of such. John 6 relays these events which end with
the statement:

John 6:66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew, and were
not walking with Him anymore.

They withdrew because they didn't like the revelation of truth that
Jesus was teaching.

2) It isn't guilt. Everyone has to confront guilt. It is a
monolithic endeavor. But the cognizance of guilt is not Divine
revelation. It is the human experience. It is no more the revelation
of God than is fear of God. We all have a conscience. It is a
principle of "being" natural to all men. We all have some apprehension
of right and wrong. Indeed, as with emotions, the Spirit of God can
use guilt to as a means toward right thinking, but that does not equate
to say that guilt or any sort of conviction of sin is Divine
illumination of a special sense.

3) Impressions. I say that word with emphasis.
Im.....pressssss......ionssss! All one has to do is turn on the local
religious station on TV and watch how lively imaginations lead to
unreasoned conclusions about being Divinely moved. If Satan is able to
transform himself into an angel of light, there is a great call to give
due apprehension to emotional or mental impressions. Impressions are
distinctively individualistic and relativistic. They do not, as the
Apostles exhorted, build up the entire body of Christ.

4) Revelations. This might shock some but let me quickly explain what
I mean. Divine illumination is never rooted anywhere outside of the
Word of God. There are no new truths or propositions revealed to us
outside of what is already written in the Scriptures. Spiritual
illumination does not bring into being a new doctrine (teaching) which
cannot already be found in the Scriptures. This does not speak against
progression in understanding of those things already revealed to us in
the Scriptures. There are many mysteries therein which yet wait to be
discovered. However, in this point I only wish to express what the
writer of Hebrews states in opening, that there are no new things
revealed tous about God or Christ outside of the Scriptures. Orthodox
doctrine only gives due apprehension to those thing which are taught in
the Word of God.

Now, I'm sure there are those who will find except to any and all of
these points. However, any objection must be rooted in God, which is
to say, objective reality. Opinions have no place here as point #3
suggests. Opinion are like _____ as the saying goes. Everyone has one
which is to say that opinions are relativistic in their basic make up.

So, this is what Divine Light is not. Okay, then just what exactly is
it?

First off, it must from the start be accepted that Divine Light (DL
from now on) is nothing less that a true sense of the excellency of
God. DL is the revelation of who God is exactly (though never
exhaustively). In that God is totally other than anything outside of
Himself (His ways not being our ways, His thoughts not being our
thoughts), it takes a movement on His part to impart illumination as to
His nature, His ways and His works.

There are two ways that this aspect of DL can be imparted. One is
notional, the other is heart felt. The first is akin to a scientific
analysis of honey. It is recognized that sugar is part of the nature
of honey and therefore it would rightly conclude that it is sweet.
However, the later aspect, that of heart knowledge, is that which is
realized by actually tasting it for ones self. The Scriptures speak
along these lines when noting tasting of heavenly things or of first
fruit. Thus there is a distinction between having an **opinion** that
God is holy to that of suffering an experiences of Divine chastisement
or holy wrath. The first is little more than heresay evidence. Over
the last decade with big court trials, it should be evident to all that
heresay evidence does not stand up in a court of adjudication. It is
personal expereince which grants the objective reality.

Secondly, a refinement of the first, that being an experiential sense
of the excellency of the Divine as contained in the Word of God and the
inner conviction of their truth and reality. Edwards writes of this,

"The mind of man is naturally full of prejudices against divine truth
that cause the arguments of the gospel to lose their force upon the
mind. But when a person has discovered the divine excellency of
Christian doctrines, this destroys the enmity, removes those
prejudices, sanctifies the reason, and causes it to lie open to the
force of arguments for their truth. Hence was the different effect
that Christ's miracles had to convince the disciples from the effect
they had upon the scribes and Pharisees."
["Divine & Supernaturl Light Immediately Imparted to the Soul by the
Spirit of God"; Mt 16:17]

Next, How is it DL given and a defense of its reality
B.G. Kent
2006-08-15 00:18:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Just a Book? Part 1 of 2
In weeks gone by, Brenda has commented that the bible is just another
book.
B - Wow..your not even out of the pen and you're wrong already. I never
said it IS just another book...I've said it may be...I've said that it
contains in my opinion both God and egoic man and that there are many
interps..in my opinion.




She maintains that her spirituality is gleaned from any and all
Post by l***@hotmail.com
sources but is never subject to just one book, even if it be proven
that book was Divinely inspired.
B -again you are in error. I've never said "even if it be proven" Infact
quite the contrary ..I always ask for proof. I don't make statements of
fact unless I can back them up with proof.



On SRC-BS, another poster has made
Post by l***@hotmail.com
the comment that she has freed herself from the bible and now is living
according to the spirit. Therefore, in this thread, Iwould like to ask
the contributors to try and hold our discussion to the nature of
revelation/"divine light" and its specific application as to the
Christian Scriptures (omitting the Apocrypha & Pseudepigrapha).
B - okay.
Unfortunately that is trying to squeeze God into the Bible...to make God
fit only into the confines of this book instead of the other way around.
For me...God is always more important than something that is
idolized..such as a book. You said later on that

"There are no new truths or propositions revealed to us
Post by l***@hotmail.com
outside of what is already written in the Scriptures."
right there! right there you have capped off revelations that may be
ongoing to this very day. You have forced God into the book refusing to
see or hear anything new that God may be saying today out of fear of "the
devil". This I find sad. This I find very sad.

I don't hate you Isenders....I even feel badly when I get sarcastic to you
and for that I apologize ...but I don't believe that one man can speak to
my own experience of God nor can he tell me what is the only Godly thing
to do. I leave that up to God. I know enough about human nature to know
that human beings screw up...get egotistical about their own
abilities...their own knowledge...feel fearful...lash out...etc. I know
what I feel in my heart and what is God speaking to me. Can I prove that
it is God? No....so lets' say I believe it is God speaking to me...just as
you believe that the Bible is Gods words. The big difference is that I
don't try and force everyone to believe as I do. I hope that they have
respect for others experience is all.

Blessings
Bren
Matthew Johnson
2006-08-15 00:18:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Just a Book? Part 1 of 2
In weeks gone by, Brenda has commented that the bible is just another
book. She maintains that her spirituality is gleaned from any and all
sources but is never subject to just one book, even if it be proven
that book was Divinely inspired. On SRC-BS, another poster has made
the comment that she has freed herself from the bible and now is living
according to the spirit. Therefore, in this thread, Iwould like to ask
the contributors to try and hold our discussion to the nature of
revelation/"divine light" and its specific application as to the
Christian Scriptures (omitting the Apocrypha & Pseudepigrapha).
Well, Loren, although I share your frustration with Brenda and her incredible
audacity in setting aside Scripture, I find that you are asking for too much.
Remember what the Charter for this newsgroup says: it does _not_ restrict
discussion so much. So what grounds can you have for doing so?

[snip]
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
Burkladies
2006-08-15 00:18:42 UTC
Permalink
So far you are both right, if you follow Christ untill physical death
going to the kingdom. Why limit Christ's word in the synoptic gospels
about the eternal life of the Kingdom to, just a book, a physical
object. Isn't that idolatery?
37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the great and first commandment.
39 And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as
thyself.
40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.
Matthew 22:37-40 (American Standard Version)
Remember Jesus was born a Essene, Jewish mystic. So Jesus could teach
and fulfill the kingdom of God meanwhile free gentiles from the Torah.


The Essenes (es'-eenz) were followers of a religious way of living in
Judaism that flourished from the 2nd century BC to the 1st century AD.
Many scholars today argue that there were a number of separate but
related groups that had in common mystic, eschatological, messianic,
and ascetic beliefs that were referred to as the "Essenes". There are
also contemporary movements which identify themselves as Essenes.
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Blessed be, Lady
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Just a Book? Part 1 of 2
In weeks gone by, Brenda has commented that the bible is just another
book. She maintains that her spirituality is gleaned from any and all
sources but is never subject to just one book, even if it be proven
that book was Divinely inspired. On SRC-BS, another poster has made
the comment that she has freed herself from the bible and now is living
according to the spirit. Therefore, in this thread, Iwould like to ask
...
Post by l***@hotmail.com
What it isn't.
1) It isn't emotional. Everyone is capable in one capacity or another
...
Post by l***@hotmail.com
2) It isn't guilt. Everyone has to confront guilt. It is a
...>
Post by l***@hotmail.com
3) Impressions. I say that word with emphasis.
Im.....pressssss......ionssss! All one has to do is turn on the local
religious station on TV and watch how lively imaginations lead to
unreasoned conclusions about being Divinely moved. If Satan is able to
transform himself into an angel of light, there is a great call to give
due apprehension to emotional or mental impressions. Impressions are
distinctively individualistic and relativistic. They do not, as the
Apostles exhorted, build up the entire body of Christ.
4) Revelations. This might shock some but let me quickly explain what
I mean. Divine illumination is never rooted anywhere outside of the
Word of God. There are no new truths or propositions revealed to us
outside of what is already written in the Scriptures. Spiritual
illumination does not bring into being a new doctrine (teaching) which
...
Post by l***@hotmail.com
So, this is what Divine Light is not. Okay, then just what exactly is
it?
First off, it must from the start be accepted that Divine Light (DL
from now on) is nothing less that a true sense of the excellency of
God. DL is the revelation of who God is exactly (though never
...
Post by l***@hotmail.com
There are two ways that this aspect of DL can be imparted. One is
notional, the other is heart felt. The first is akin to a scientific
...
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Secondly, a refinement of the first, that being an experiential sense
of the excellency of the Divine as contained in the Word of God and the
inner conviction of their truth and reality. Edwards writes of this,
...
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Next, How is it DL given and a defense of its reality
B.G. Kent
2006-08-16 03:16:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Burkladies
So far you are both right, if you follow Christ untill physical death
going to the kingdom.
B - Well I don't know if I am "right" because I am giving an opinion which
cannot be proven...just like he is.
So I will ask you to please prove that we are both right.


Why limit Christ's word in the synoptic gospels
Post by Burkladies
about the eternal life of the Kingdom to, just a book, a physical
object. Isn't that idolatery?
B - In my opinion it is.
Post by Burkladies
37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the great and first commandment.
39 And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as
thyself.
snip for space*
B - Well again...we don't know for certain...we only have hear-say.
Post by Burkladies
Blessed be, Lady
Be Blessed,
Bren
r***@yahoo.com
2006-08-17 03:23:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by Burkladies
So far you are both right, if you follow Christ untill physical death
going to the kingdom.
They can't both be right, they are contradicting each other.
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by Burkladies
Why limit Christ's word in the synoptic gospels
about the eternal life of the Kingdom to, just a book, a physical
object. Isn't that idolatery?
B - In my opinion it is.
Unfortunately, such an opinion is idiotic. We believe the Bible is a
record of Gods revelation to us. His words.
We don't worship the book itself, we cling to what is said in the
book.

If we claim to worship the God of the bible, but ignore what he says,
then we wouldn't be worshipping the God of the bible. If we claim to
follow the God of the bible, but don't trust what he says, then how
can we follow him? If we only trust what we personally believe, then
THAT is idolatry, because we put ourselves in the position of God,
deciding right/wrong.

When you are at that stage, you KNOW that you are not following God.
And you KNOW that you in idolatry.
You ask for proof, Brenda, when a human makes himself the ultimate
judge, then that MUST be idolatry, unless he can prove he is god.


dave
B.G. Kent
2006-08-18 02:04:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Unfortunately, such an opinion is idiotic. We believe the Bible is a
record of Gods revelation to us. His words.
B - as far as I know..you are one person..so speaking as "we" is a bit
presumptous..and calling it idiotic shows that your temper is short and
that you can't speak logically about it.
Post by r***@yahoo.com
We don't worship the book itself, we cling to what is said in the
book.
B- so you worship the words in the book. Even the ones that call Jesus
Jebus and tell us not to eat four legged fowl?
You *cling* to it?
Post by r***@yahoo.com
If we claim to worship the God of the bible, but ignore what he says,
can we follow him? If we only trust what we personally believe, then
THAT is idolatry, because we put ourselves in the position of God,
deciding right/wrong.
B - who is this "we" again? Thing is..this is a Christian newsgroup..not a
biblicist or literalist newsgroup..so worship how you wish...just don't
speak here for all Christians. You are putting yourself in the position of
God by stating that the Bible is the word of God. You don't say, in my
opinion it is the word of God...you say it is..which is a statement of
fact and yet you cannot prove it...so in otherwords you are saying it is
right because you say so...which kinda makes you God-like no?
Post by r***@yahoo.com
When you are at that stage, you KNOW that you are not following God.
And you KNOW that you in idolatry.
You ask for proof, Brenda, when a human makes himself the ultimate
judge, then that MUST be idolatry, unless he can prove he is god.
B- Says you? You judge constantly..you've judged me...you've called what
I say idiotic..then you say not to judge. You have made yourself the
ultimate judge...you've said something is...without proving it.
Post by r***@yahoo.com
dave
Bren
Matthew Johnson
2006-08-21 01:10:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Unfortunately, such an opinion is idiotic. We believe the Bible is a
record of Gods revelation to us. His words.
B - as far as I know..you are one person..so speaking as "we" is a bit
presumptous..
No, it is not presumptuos. Unlike you, rtdavide really _is_ accurately
expressing the opinions of an awful lot of us in this NG.
Post by B.G. Kent
and calling it idiotic shows that your temper is short and
that you can't speak logically about it.
No, it is showing that you have exasperated him. This should be no surprise,
since you have been pushing people's patience for so long with your own
presumption, which is far more outrageous than any 'presumption' rtdavide has
exhibited in this thread.

[snip]
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
suneejan
2006-08-21 01:10:05 UTC
Permalink
Bren
The Bible is the word of God written for our instruction. You ask for
proof. The proof is that what God says in the Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16
Col 3:16
One needs faith in God and the scriptures. Matthew 4:4
God says to meditate on the scriptures daily. Psalms 1:2-3
Once you and anyone is born again the sciptures will be clear and the
understanding will come! This is true because I see it happen to the
people who trust the lord and ask HIM in their hearts. This is not my
opinion but a true fact!
r***@yahoo.com
2006-08-21 01:10:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Unfortunately, such an opinion is idiotic. We believe the Bible is a
record of Gods revelation to us. His words.
B calling it idiotic shows that your temper is short and
that you can't speak logically about it.
Unfortunately, there is no way to understand the tone in which someone
'writes' something, like we can get the tone of someone speaking to
us. I was not saying this in a hostile or short tempered manner.
I called it idiotic because ......... it is.
But there are other words as well.
One cannot automatically equate reverencing what one believes God is
saying to him, to worshipping the message itself.

Unfortunately here, it seems like emotions might have gotten the better
of judgment. As I read the responses, there is more fixation on minor
details than the actual arguments. seemed to have noticed was the
pronoun......
Perhaps had more attention been given to the arguments themselves, then
the original "idiotic" might have made more sense.
B You don't say, in my opinion it is the word of God
...you say it is..which is a statement of fact and yet you
cannot prove it...so in otherwords you are saying it is
right because you say so...which kinda makes you God-like no?
There is a difference between accepting other authority and retaining
the authority for oneself.
The first acquiesces, it defers. The second does not.
The first is humble [even if wrong] the second is egotistical.
Post by r***@yahoo.com
When you are at that stage, you KNOW that you are not following God.
And you KNOW that you in idolatry.
You ask for proof, Brenda, when a human makes himself the ultimate
judge, then that MUST be idolatry, unless he can prove he is god.
B- Says you? You judge constantly..you've judged me...you've called what
I say idiotic..then you say not to judge. You have made yourself the
ultimate judge...you've said something is...without proving it.
Step back and take a deep breath.....
Making oneself the "ultimate authority" is different from "using
judgment".
I am not the ultimate authority in my country, but the police still
expect me to use judgment in regard to the laws. Understand the
difference? We must use "judgment".

It is wrong to equate believing the Bible with worshipping it. I use
judgment to grasp that the 2 things are not the same. But me applying
judgment in making a decision here is not the same as calling myself
the ultimate authority.

If we did have a person who insisted on retaining the authority for
themselves, couldn't we say that such a person really does hold
himself up in the place of God?

dave
B.G. Kent
2006-08-22 02:18:04 UTC
Permalink
B - then again....your statments saying "God is...or the Bible is Gods
would" is what I have been saying...SUBJECTIVE and should be couched that
The above "would" should obviously read "word".

carryon!

:)

Bren
B.G. Kent
2006-08-22 02:18:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by suneejan
Bren
The Bible is the word of God written for our instruction. You ask for
proof. The proof is that what God says in the Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16
Suneejan...you can't use something I'm asking you to prove "to prove".

First prove that the Bible is the word of God as you see it...
second prove that the words in said Bible are Gods words.

Thanks...I'll wait.

Bren
l***@hotmail.com
2006-08-23 03:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
"There are no new truths or propositions revealed to us
Post by l***@hotmail.com
outside of what is already written in the Scriptures."
right there! right there you have capped off revelations that may be
ongoing to this very day. You have forced God into the book refusing to
see or hear anything new that God may be saying today out of fear of "the
devil". This I find sad. This I find very sad.
Not me, hunbun.

Heb. 1:1,2 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets
in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us
in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He
made the world.

If the Son is the Deity generated by God's understanding or having an
Idea of Himself and subsisting in that Idea, then the advent of the Son
and His personal discipling of the authors of the NT (except for Luke
who wrote as a historian), that revelation is final. Though Matthew
would argue that Rev 22:18 & 19 only attest to John's Revelation, in
that all scripture is of the same character as its Revealer, unity and
diversity, these two verses apply to the entire 66 books of the Bible.


Simply put, there is no need for further information. God has deemed
that what He has revealed is enough. The Gospel is simple but not
simplistic. Man is a sinner. Man needs a Mediator and a Savior. The
Messiah is both the Just and the Justifier. In Christ, is our one and
only avenue to salvation, salvation from the coming wrath of God to be
meted out on all unrighteousness.

I've asked you before and you have not answered. "What do you do with
your guilt, Brenda?" Like everyone else who has ever lived, you have
feelings of true moral guilt. What do you do with and about those
feelings? Admittedly, one may calcify those feelings over the years to
where they are hardly felt at all. But you must admit there are those
times when the weight of your moral guilt lays heavily upon you. At
those times, what do you do to alleviate that weight?

Gospel of Jesus Christ is simply that you place that guilt upon His
cross work. His vicarious atonement pays for that guilt. So your sin
is taken away once you rest in what He has done for you. However, that
is not enough. Simply to remove your moral guilt does not justify you
before God. You must be righteous according to the Divine standard,
not any standard you or I would make for ourselves. That standard is
nothing less than, "Be ye holy even as your Father in heaven is holy."
But we are incapable of such a righteousness. The only way we can be
come acceptably righteous is to cloak ourselves in the righteousness of
Christ who lived the complete and perfect life during His first advent.
Therefore, you must not only accept what He has done in your stead as
to the removal of guilt, but you must also deny yourself worth, your
ability to perform any sort of good deed(s) which would place God in
you debt. Therefore you must place the full weight of your dependence
upon Christ and His righteousness in order to be saved from His eternal
retribution for not complying to His standard of perfection. There is
but "one name under heaven where by we can be saved," that being Jesus
Christ. There simply are no other options.

The scriptures are quite clear that you must either accept the Jesus of
the Bible and what He has done for you, or you stand in rejection of
it. There are no "degrees" in this. This is THE true "either/or"
situation. Either you are saved "in Christ" or you stand outside of
His offer of salvation and therefore are already judged and on your way
toward eternal damnation and torment. You MUST accept Christ under
God's terms or you are living a fantasy, a lie, as to your place in
eternity. He is the Judge. You must accept His terms or suffer the
consequence. Paul clearly states that to deny these things is to be
"without excuse" when you are brought before God. "It is appointed
unto man once to die and then comes [certain] judgment." There are no
second chances. You have only this life time to live the life of faith
in Christ Jesus as He has called all of us to live. or you will die in
your sin and forever forfeit all hope. Dante got at least that much
right. "Forsake all hope ye who enter here."
l***@hotmail.com
2006-08-23 03:30:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
First prove that the Bible is the word of God as you see it...
second prove that the words in said Bible are Gods words.
If you will go back to the two original posts of this thread, you will
see that I have already presented the argument for why special
revelation must be given. It is impossible to attain the idea of such
a God as presented in the Bible by independent speculation. This is
true for two very significant reasons.

One, we are finite and He is infinite. Simply put, He must become
anthropomorphic in His revelation or we would know nothing about Him
other that He is and that He is the Creator. Though creation attests
to the uni-plural nature of it's Creator, mere reason seems never to
arise to such a conclusion. Therefore, because God is by nature,
infinite, the burden falls upon Him to identify Himself as He wishes to
be known.

Two, man has fallen from his original design. Originally, God talked
directly with man. "In the cool of day" God would anthropomorphically
visit the couple and converse with them and reveal directly Himself and
His will. At that time there was no need for an inscripturization of
the Word of God. However, after the fallen, supernatural revelation
was required because man lost his priveleged position. The fall of
mankind has made it necessary for an inscripturalization of the Word
because apart from it, the imagination of men is anything but God
revealing.

So we need the Bible because God no longer comes in the cool of the day
to have face-to-face chats with us, now does He. And apart from the
written Word, what transcendental standard do we have available to for
verification of what is true and what is not? If you cannot provide an
absolute standard of verification, then you are left with no sure guard
against error. It is because of what we are -self inclined- that an
outside source and standard are required. And because God is good and
because God is not the god of the deist who viewed creation as some
clock that god wound up and then left it to unwind on its own, He has
faithfully given us His Word in written form. Because God is who He is
and because man is who he is, the authoritative self-revelation of God
is supernatural fashion is required.

Now, as to why the Christian scriptures are not only The Word of God
and The Word of God exclusively? Because it is self authenticating.
Observe those who once lived their lives apart from it and from the God
of the Bible and then compare them to themselves after it has come into
their lives. All born again believers have a testimony of the power of
the Word of God as found exclussively in the Bible.

There is also another reason which you might consider. There simply
are NO other books of antiquity to compare to it. We have a little
over 5500 complete Greek manuscripts of the NT, all within two hundred
years of Christ. We have several individual Greek manuscripts of books
of the NT written within 30 yrs of Christ. And of this entire
collection of manuscripts, when a comparative analysis is done of the
text, there is a 97 per cent agreement. Absolute no other book in the
history of man even comes remotely close to these figures. Many of the
great ancient texts that we have to read to day, haven't a single
manuscript available within 1000 yrs of the original. And when
multiple manuscripts are found, the per centile of agreement rarely,
very very rarely, ever exceeds 50 per cent. Chew on these facts a
while. There are ample reasons for committing yourself to the
Christian scriptures exclussively and to the God who reveals Himself
within them.
B.G. Kent
2006-08-24 00:55:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Post by B.G. Kent
First prove that the Bible is the word of God as you see it...
second prove that the words in said Bible are Gods words.
If you will go back to the two original posts of this thread, you will
see that I have already presented the argument for why special
B - I was responding to suneejan.
You cannot say anything "is" unless you have proof.
If you don't have proof then you should be couching your words more
subjectively...as in "in my opinion, what I believe, or I.M.O". Anything
more than a subjective view deserves proof.

I.M.O
Blessings
Bren
B.G. Kent
2006-08-24 00:55:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Post by B.G. Kent
"There are no new truths or propositions revealed to us
Post by l***@hotmail.com
outside of what is already written in the Scriptures."
right there! right there you have capped off revelations that may be
ongoing to this very day. You have forced God into the book refusing to
see or hear anything new that God may be saying today out of fear of "the
devil". This I find sad. This I find very sad.
Not me, hunbun.
B - Okay cookie.
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Simply put, there is no need for further information. God has deemed
that what He has revealed is enough.
*snip*

B - yet again..you say things without proof. If I am asking you to prove
that the Bible is as you claim..the word of God..then first I ask you to
prove the Bible is Gods word before using it to prove other statements.
Post by l***@hotmail.com
I've asked you before and you have not answered. "What do you do with
your guilt, Brenda?" Like everyone else who has ever lived, you have
feelings of true moral guilt.
B - I've felt guilty before. If I can learn from it..then I do. If it is
superfluous guilt (as in someone trying to make me feel guilty for
something they have a major part in themselves) then I realize that it
does nothing and is a waste of energy. That is what I do with my guilt.
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Gospel of Jesus Christ is simply that you place that guilt upon His
cross work.
B - Prove.

Isenders instead of constantly fling chapter and verse at me willy nilly
why don't you do first what I have been asking you to over and over and
prove that the Bible is the word of God FIRST..before using that to judge
other things.
Post by l***@hotmail.com
The scriptures are quite clear that you must either accept the Jesus of
the Bible and what He has done for you, or you stand in rejection of
it.
B - prove that "the scriptures" are the words of God first.
You don't realize that you may have all this time...been preaching to the
choir. You assume I don't have my own understanding or take on the
Bible..or on any other scripture that is written...you assume a lot
instead of just realizing that I am asking you to prove your subjective
opinions are OBJECTIVE in fact....as you keep posting them as fact. Don't
try and teach me about God....prove to me that the Bible is Gods word
first.

Blessings
Bren
Matthew Johnson
2006-08-25 05:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Post by B.G. Kent
First prove that the Bible is the word of God as you see it...
second prove that the words in said Bible are Gods words.
If you will go back to the two original posts of this thread, you will
see that I have already presented the argument for why special
B - I was responding to suneejan.
You cannot say anything "is" unless you have proof.
IN that case, why are you still posting here?

[snip]
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
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