Discussion:
Those Who Have Life
(too old to reply)
Frank
2008-03-25 02:08:37 UTC
Permalink
All those who place their trust ENTIRELY
in Jesus Christ for their salvation
have eternal life.
This seems to be mostly among those
who consider themselves
to be Born-Again Christians.
Thanks be to the Lord for all
those who have that faith
for salvation in Jesus!
--
http://roines.home.mindspring.com
Bren
2008-03-28 01:47:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank
All those who place their trust ENTIRELY
in Jesus Christ for their salvation
have eternal life.
This seems to be mostly among those
who consider themselves
to be Born-Again Christians.
Thanks be to the Lord for all
those who have that faith
for salvation in Jesus!
--http://roines.home.mindspring.com
B - remember that part in the Bible that says "not all that say "lord
lord" etc. " I've seen many a person claiming "Born again-ness" that
are apeing words provided by their pastors..but the peer pressure
around them..the need to fit in with the rest. I think it more
important to put entire faith upon God itself that one aspect of God
(Jesus the Christ). For some reason ..especially in South eastern U.S.
they are taken Jesus and made him God instead of a God aspect. Is he
the son of himself? If he is the son..then where is the mother/father?

Bren
AJA
2008-03-31 02:35:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bren
For some reason ..especially in South eastern U.S.
they are taken Jesus and made him God instead of a God aspect. Is he
the son of himself? If he is the son..then where is the mother/father?
Father, Son and Holy Spirit = the One God. Jesus is not tradictionally (or
otherwise) nally referred to as an "aspect" by the Church.

Blessings,
Ann
DKleinecke
2008-04-01 01:41:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by AJA
Post by Bren
For some reason ..especially in South eastern U.S.
they are taken Jesus and made him God instead of a God aspect. Is he
the son of himself? If he is the son..then where is the mother/father?
Father, Son and Holy Spirit = the One God. Jesus is not tradictionally (or
otherwise) nally referred to as an "aspect" by the Church.
Blessings,
Ann
I cannot resist noting that not all Christians are Trinitarians.

I have noticed the same phenomenon that Bren mentioned. As a modal
monarchist I have no difficulty with it. Jesus is just another name
for God (like Elohim and YHWH and Allah and so on). But it is a
theological innovation to specialize on Jesus.

I am bemused at the constant neglect of the Holy Ghost. If one really
believed in the Trinity I would expect one to emphasize the Spirit
over the other two persons.
After all, the Father and the Son are a long way off in time and the
Holy Spirit is with us always.

To me "Father" is the name we use for God when we think of the
creation. "Christ" (or Jesus) is the name we use for God when we think
about the intervention God made in Judea two thousand years ago and
"Holy Spirit' is the name we should use when we think of God in the
here and now. What name we should use for God when we think of
Judgment Day appears to still be up in the air.

All names. No persons.
B
2008-04-01 01:41:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by AJA
Post by Bren
For some reason ..especially in South eastern U.S.
they are taken Jesus and made him God instead of a God aspect. Is he
the son of himself? If he is the son..then where is the mother/father?
Father, Son and Holy Spirit = the One God. Jesus is not tradictionally (or
otherwise) nally referred to as an "aspect" by the Church.
Blessings,
Ann
B - oh I know that Jesus is not in modern times traditionally referred
to as an aspect but as part of ONE God he is indeed an aspect...such
as a facet of a diamond is one view into the same diamond as all the
other facets. I was talking about God and Jesus however ..not what
the Church decides. I tend to take my nudging from them and not
fallible human beings for the most part. I.M.O Bren
Matthew Johnson
2008-04-02 02:10:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by DKleinecke
Post by AJA
Post by Bren
For some reason ..especially in South eastern U.S.
they are taken Jesus and made him God instead of a God aspect. Is he
the son of himself? If he is the son..then where is the mother/father?
Father, Son and Holy Spirit = the One God. Jesus is not tradictionally (or
otherwise) nally referred to as an "aspect" by the Church.
Blessings,
Ann
I cannot resist noting that not all Christians are Trinitarians.
Noting something doesn't make it true. I refer you to the Moderator's
own FAQ http://geneva.rutgers.edu/src/faq/xity-definition.txt: many of
us Christians _do_ consider belief in the Trinity an essential part of
Christianity. Reject the Trinity, and we have the right to refuse to
call you 'Christian'.

The Moderator's exact words (ibid) are: "But I think the most commonly
accepted definition would be based on something like the Nicene Creed
and the Formula of Chalcedon".

Clearly any form of modalism is excluded by these.
Post by DKleinecke
I have noticed the same phenomenon that Bren mentioned. As a modal
monarchist I have no difficulty with it. Jesus is just another name
for God (like Elohim and YHWH and Allah and so on). But it is a
theological innovation to specialize on Jesus.
Well, Modal Monarchists may believe that, but since that contradicts
the Creed and Formula above _so_ blatantly, no one _should_ feel
compelled to follow your error.
Post by DKleinecke
I am bemused at the constant neglect of the Holy Ghost.
What "constant neglect"? Have you ever been to a Pentecost service?
Post by DKleinecke
If one really believed in the Trinity I would expect one to emphasize
the Spirit over the other two persons.
Then you do not understand what 'Trinity' means. None of the Persons
are 'over' the others. To put any over the others leads you _away_
from Trinitarianism into, say, for example, subordinationism.
Post by DKleinecke
After all, the Father and the Son are a long way off in time and the
Holy Spirit is with us always.
How can the Holy Spirit be with someone who denies the Trinity?
Indeed, how can He be present in someone without making the Son and Father
_also_ present? Yet you call them "a long way off".
Post by DKleinecke
To me "Father" is the name we use for God when we think of the
creation.
How can you neglect John 1:1 like this? It _clearly_ shows the Son's
role in Creation.

Likewise, how can you neglect Genesis 1:2 like this? It too _clearly_
shows the Spirit's role in Creation.
Post by DKleinecke
"Christ" (or Jesus) is the name we use for God when we think
about the intervention God made in Judea two thousand years ago and
"Holy Spirit' is the name we should use when we think of God in the
here and now.
No, rather, when we think of any Person, we should find ourselves
drawn to think of all of them. That is what it means for them to be
consubstantial and indivisible.

But since these last two terms carry so little weight for you, think
also of:

And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by
the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the
Spirit. The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit
of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand
them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man judges
all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. "For who has known
the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of
Christ. (1Co 2:13-16 RSVA)

NB: it is the presence of the _Spirit_ that give us the _mind of
Christ_. Both Persons are present. No modalism here.
Post by DKleinecke
What name we should use for God when we think of Judgment Day appears
to still be up in the air.
All names. No persons.
Now what was that supposed to mean? Are you endorsing Nominalism to
support your Modalism? 1 Cor 2:13-16 should have been proof enough
that that is not possible.
--
------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
Matthew Johnson
2008-04-02 02:10:02 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
Post by B
Post by AJA
Father, Son and Holy Spirit = the One God. Jesus is not
tradictionally (or otherwise) nally referred to as an "aspect" by
the Church.
Blessings,
Ann
B - oh I know that Jesus is not in modern times traditionally
referred to as an aspect but as part of ONE God he is indeed an
aspect.
Such a bold assertion for someone who tells _others_ to say "in my
opinion"!

No, Bren, not just in modern times. In ancient times also, it was
never _traditionally_ done. Rather, it was in ancient times that those
who _did_ demote Him to mere 'aspect' were anathematized. Some
traditionalists still repeat that anathema today, i.e., on the first
Sunday of Lent, which was Mar 17th this year.
Post by B
..such as a facet of a diamond is one view into the same diamond as
all the other facets. I was talking about God and Jesus however
..not what the Church decides. I tend to take my nudging from them
and not fallible human beings for the most part. I.M.O Bren
Oh really? Well guess what, Bren. Some of have the opinion that you
are wrong about who this 'nudging' comes from. Very wrong indeed. So
wrong, you cut yourself off from your own salvation by following this
'nudging'.
--
------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
Loading...