Discussion:
What would you do if Jesus Himself came back again (in human form)?
(too old to reply)
Chellie
2006-10-10 00:10:14 UTC
Permalink
Really what would you do if Jesus Himself, was to come from Heaven and
the whole world was to actually see Him come down? I mean everybody,
enitire world.

Imagine this:
You are going about your daily business, shopping or whatever. All of a
sudden a bright light is descending down from Heaven, then you start to
see a human figure forming and a voice says "I am Jesus." Also He was
to say something of the matter of being displeased with how man is
worshipping Him, displeased with all the sin, etc. Now what would you
do?

I am not poking fun at anyone. I honestly want everyone who read this,
to be sincere and answer this question from your heart. Take a moment
or two and think on your answer and then reply. Even if you don't
believe there's a God. Just speculate. And also for unbelievers: would
you then believe that God exists or still doubt and chucked it off as a
really good illusion?


Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
B.G. Kent
2006-10-11 05:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chellie
Really what would you do if Jesus Himself, was to come from Heaven and
the whole world was to actually see Him come down? I mean everybody,
enitire world.
B - I'd be happy and I'd go to hug him.
Then I'd offer him some gum.

What else could one do?

Blessings
Bren
gilgames
2006-10-11 05:22:04 UTC
Permalink
<<
Really what would you do if Jesus Himself, was to come from Heaven and
the whole world was to actually see Him come down? I mean everybody,
enitire world.

Imagine this:
You are going about your daily business, shopping or whatever. All of a
sudden a bright light is descending down from Heaven, then you start to
see a human figure forming and a voice says "I am Jesus." Also He was
to say something of the matter of being displeased with how man is
worshipping Him, displeased with all the sin, etc. Now what would you
do?

I am not poking fun at anyone. I honestly want everyone who read this,
to be sincere and answer this question from your heart. Take a moment
or two and think on your answer and then reply. Even if you don't
believe there's a God. Just speculate. And also for unbelievers: would
you then believe that God exists or still doubt and chucked it off as a
really good illusion?


Striving to perfection and holiness in Jesus Christ,
Chellie
Your story is written down in details is the Book of Revelation.
shegeek72
2006-10-12 00:49:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chellie
You are going about your daily business, shopping or whatever. All of a
sudden a bright light is descending down from Heaven, then you start to
see a human figure forming and a voice says "I am Jesus." Also He was
to say something of the matter of being displeased with how man is
worshipping Him, displeased with all the sin, etc. Now what would you
do?
I think he would be displeased at how some have misinterperted the
Bible and Christianity. For example, those who judge others for whom
they choose to love or be intimate with or their gender identity, or
have committed violence in the name of religion; that he would not
think well of oppressive governments, servitude and how much poverty
and hunger there is in this world of great abundance.

Tara
--
Tara's Transgender Resources
http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem
B.G. Kent
2006-10-12 00:49:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chellie
<<
Really what would you do if Jesus Himself, was to come from Heaven and
the whole world was to actually see Him come down? I mean everybody,
enitire world.
You are going about your daily business, shopping or whatever. All of a
sudden a bright light is descending down from Heaven, then you start to
see a human figure forming and a voice says "I am Jesus." Also He was
to say something of the matter of being displeased with how man is
worshipping Him, displeased with all the sin, etc. Now what would you
do?
R - I don't think he would be that displeased...I think he would know the
reasons behind things...and that he would be incredibly harmonious and
loving. I think he might answer all of our questions if it did help us
only...and that he would focus on the positive..what we could do etc.
I think he would suggest to us to believe from the depths of our beings
that we are ONE...that with God all things are possible. Now that is if I
believed that this being WAS indeed Jesus and not someone pretending to be
Jesus. I would ask him to open me up more to the God within...if he could
do this for me and ask him what can I do to make the world a better place.

that's my thoughts on the subject....
and that is the sincerest from my heart.

love Ravynwolfe
Matthew Johnson
2006-10-13 01:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by Chellie
You are going about your daily business, shopping or whatever. All of a
sudden a bright light is descending down from Heaven, then you start to
see a human figure forming and a voice says "I am Jesus." Also He was
to say something of the matter of being displeased with how man is
worshipping Him, displeased with all the sin, etc. Now what would you
do?
I think he would be displeased at how some have misinterperted the
Bible and Christianity.
Such as yourself, for example?
Post by shegeek72
For example, those who judge others for whom they choose to love or
be intimate with or their gender identity,
But this opinion of yours is without any weight whatsoever. We already
_know_ from His words in the Gospel (and from the words of His "chosen
vessel") what he thought about these things, and it is NOT the rosy
picture you paint. Not by a long shot.

[snip]
Post by shegeek72
Tara
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
r***@yahoo.com
2006-10-13 01:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Peoples reactions are interesting....

Brens Jesus wouldn't be displeased, he would be harmonious, he might
answer our questions as long as it helps us, and he wouldn't focus on
the negative, only the positive. He would suggest to us that we believe
just what bren believes.

Tara's Jesus would be upset with how fundamentalists are treating
homosexuals or those with "gender" issues.
Oh yeah, and oppressive religion! That plus poverty, hunger, etc, etc.
Which is exactly what Tara is concerned about...

But what if Jesus showed up and told Tara that homosexuality was
wrong........
Would Tara want to kill him? or hate him? or would he/she say that such
a person couldn't be Jesus?
Or what if Jesus told Bren that she was a sinner that needed to
repent.....
Would Bren say that person CAN'T be Jesus?
What if he told me I was a hypocrite, and that I wasn't really
serious about following God, but only going through the motions?

And this is a real issue. The religious leaders of Jesus time thought
they were doing the right things and thought they were searching for
the messiah. But when he showed up and condemned them, they assumed
that they were OK and this guy must be a pretender. Why? Cause he
didn't agree with them.

We all presume we are right. That is why each assumed that Jesus would
support his/her own ideas. That was exactly the error the religious
leaders of Israel made.
But what if Jesus showed up and condemned us? What if he said we needed
to change and that we would NOT make it to heaven as we are? That was
the bigger error the religious leaders of Israel made. Rather than
looking inward, they assumed that they were right and anyone
disagreeing with them could not be the messiah.

If you were reading this post, got defensive and started thinking: oh
yeah? What if he told you YOU were wrong??!!!
Then you're on the wrong path. You'd probably want to crucify Jesus
too.
If you thought; hmmm, how would I react? Would I accept the rebuke?
Then maybe there would be a chance for you.
Bob
2006-10-16 02:14:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Peoples reactions are interesting....
Most assume he would appear as he looked when he left the first time,
i.e. white male. Being God, "he" could come back in any form "he"
chose. No matter what his message is, could we accept him if the
appearance was female, or black, or chinese, or anything different than
what we expect? Would we ignore the message simply because "he" didn't
look authentic according to our expectations?

Bob
Deng Qi Feng
2006-10-16 02:14:48 UTC
Permalink
I would sell all of possesions and give my money to the poor. Then I
would return to my village in China and till the land for food while
spreading the gospel to atheists and bhuddists there. I believe many
Chinese christians with ancestor homes in China and Taiwan should do
the same since China (HK, Macau, Taiwan incl.) is one of the last
industrialized nations yet to be converted to Christianity.
Post by Chellie
Really what would you do if Jesus Himself, was to come from Heaven and
the whole world was to actually see Him come down? I mean everybody,
enitire world.
You are going about your daily business, shopping or whatever. All of a
sudden a bright light is descending down from Heaven, then you start to
see a human figure forming and a voice says "I am Jesus." Also He was
to say something of the matter of being displeased with how man is
worshipping Him, displeased with all the sin, etc. Now what would you
do?
...
B.G. Kent
2006-10-16 02:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Peoples reactions are interesting....
Brens Jesus wouldn't be displeased, he would be harmonious, he might
answer our questions as long as it helps us, and he wouldn't focus on
the negative, only the positive. He would suggest to us that we believe
just what bren believes.
B - Hmmm actually I never said he would suggest you believe just what I
believe. I simply gave you my answer at what I would do...IF....Jesus came
back and if he saw how we have lived.
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Tara's Jesus would be upset with how fundamentalists are treating
homosexuals or those with "gender" issues.
Oh yeah, and oppressive religion! That plus poverty, hunger, etc, etc.
Which is exactly what Tara is concerned about...
Or what if Jesus told Bren that she was a sinner that needed to
repent.....
Would Bren say that person CAN'T be Jesus?
B - Well personally if he told me that I was a sinner...I'd say..yes I am.
If he said repent! I'd say DONE!
Post by r***@yahoo.com
If you were reading this post, got defensive and started thinking: oh
yeah? What if he told you YOU were wrong??!!!
Then you're on the wrong path. You'd probably want to crucify Jesus
too.
If you thought; hmmm, how would I react? Would I accept the rebuke?
Then maybe there would be a chance for you.
B - I'd never want to crucify Jesus and I'm amazed that you came to that
conclusion. The last line? how do you know?


Bren
B.G. Kent
2006-10-17 02:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deng Qi Feng
I would sell all of possesions and give my money to the poor. Then I
would return to my village in China and till the land for food while
spreading the gospel to atheists and bhuddists there. I believe many
Chinese christians with ancestor homes in China and Taiwan should do
the same since China (HK, Macau, Taiwan incl.) is one of the last
industrialized nations yet to be converted to Christianity.
B - Why wait?

Bren
shegeek72
2006-10-17 02:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Peoples reactions are interesting....
Your comments are disturbing...
Post by r***@yahoo.com
But what if Jesus showed up and told Tara that homosexuality was
wrong........
Would Tara want to kill him? or hate him? or would he/she say that such
a person couldn't be Jesus?
I cannot understand how one could even suggest I'd want to kill or hate
Jesus - it's insulting!

It should be pointed out that Jesus said NOTHING about gender identity
or homosexuality. Certainly, if they were such "bad" things he would've
said something.

It's also an insult to refer to a trans person as "he/she." However, I
understand we are a misunderstood lot and there's much ignorance in
society, especially from those who are from a culture where there's no
history of a third gender, or "two-spirit" (as in eastern and native
Am. Indian cultures).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit

However, the question is moot as until Jesus actually returns in
physical form no one can speak for him.

Tara
--
What would the world be like without men? No war, no crime and a lot of
fat happy women!
shegeek72
2006-10-17 02:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Johnson
Post by shegeek72
I think he would be displeased at how some have misinterperted the
Bible and Christianity.
Such as yourself, for example?
You do not, by any means, have the final word on what the Bible says or
means.
Post by Matthew Johnson
But this opinion of yours is without any weight whatsoever. We already
_know_ from His words in the Gospel (and from the words of His "chosen
vessel") what he thought about these things, and it is NOT the rosy
picture you paint.
I disagree. Jesus said_nothing_about who one chooses to love or their
gender identity. However, he did say that he who has not sinned to cast
the first stone. Care to practive what you preach?

Tara
--
Tara's Transgender Resources
http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem
B.G. Kent
2006-10-17 02:54:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
what we expect? Would we ignore the message simply because "he" didn't
look authentic according to our expectations?
Bob
Hi....I believe that Jesus would come back as Jesus...and that God is
always here so the concept of "coming back as..." would be odd to me.
If Jesus is coming back that is...
Just an opinion.

Bren
Matthew Johnson
2006-10-18 01:16:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
Post by shegeek72
I think he would be displeased at how some have misinterperted the
Bible and Christianity.
Such as yourself, for example?
You do not, by any means, have the final word on what the Bible says or
means.
I never said that I did. Nor did I need to. For it is all too obvious
that almost anyone else in this NG has a better say than you do. You
have shown off your bias and ignorance far too often.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
But this opinion of yours is without any weight whatsoever. We already
_know_ from His words in the Gospel (and from the words of His "chosen
vessel") what he thought about these things, and it is NOT the rosy
picture you paint.
I disagree.
Duh. Of course you do. But you disagree groundlessly.
Post by shegeek72
Jesus said_nothing_about who one chooses to love
Nonsense. He said quite a bit about it. But you did not understand any
of it. I wish I could say I was surprised.
Post by shegeek72
or their gender identity.
Again, nonsense. Of course He does. He quotes Genesis, saying, "In the
beginning, He made them male and female (Mat 19:4)".
Post by shegeek72
However, he did say that he who has not sinned to cast the first
stone.
Once more, you show off your ignorance. That passage (Jn 8:1-12) was
_added_ later to the Gospel. Not everyone believes He even said that.
Post by shegeek72
Care to practive what you preach?
Oh, I do. Whatever "practive" means;)
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
r***@yahoo.com
2006-10-18 01:16:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Peoples reactions are interesting....
Your comments are disturbing...
I cannot understand how one could even suggest I'd want to kill or hate
Jesus - it's insulting!
Hold on, I'm not saying you would, I'm asking the question about
reactions. The point is, what if he insisted you were wrong. I
understand you don't think he would, after all you are convinced that
we are wrong about what the bible says and you are right. The question
could just as easily be turned to me: how would I handle it, if Jesus
told me I was wrong.

But you're off to a bad start. You got defensive rather than
introspective. My guess is that if he insisted you were wrong, you
would hate him and if he kept it up, you'd get mad enough to want him
gone.
There are lessons in the bible. You think maybe you know something
about the bible and the fundamentalists are misreading everything. But
are you so sure you wouldn't fall to the same problems?
Pretty smug..... and already falling to the same traps the Pharisees
fell into.
Post by shegeek72
It should be pointed out that Jesus said NOTHING about gender identity
or homosexuality. Certainly, if they were such "bad" things he would've
said something.
Is that right? Anything that Jesus didn't mention must be OK?
Is that really what you think?
Post by shegeek72
What would the world be like without men? No war, no crime and a lot of
fat happy women!
There wouldn't be any women, there wouldn't be any human life at
all.
r***@yahoo.com
2006-10-18 01:16:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Peoples reactions are interesting....
Your comments are disturbing...
I cannot understand how one could even suggest I'd want to kill or hate
Jesus - it's insulting!
Hold on, I'm not saying you would, I'm asking the question about
reactions. The point is, what if he insisted you were wrong. I
understand you don't think he would, after all you are convinced that
we are wrong about what the bible says and you are right. The question
could just as easily be turned to me: how would I handle it, if Jesus
told me I was wrong.

But you're off to a bad start. You got defensive rather than
introspective. My guess is that if he insisted you were wrong, you
would hate him and if he kept it up, you'd get mad enough to want him
gone.
There are lessons in the bible. You think maybe you know something
about the bible and the fundamentalists are misreading everything. But
are you so sure you wouldn't fall to the same problems?
Pretty smug..... and already falling to the same traps the Pharisees
fell into.
Post by shegeek72
It should be pointed out that Jesus said NOTHING about gender identity
or homosexuality. Certainly, if they were such "bad" things he would've
said something.
Is that right? Anything that Jesus didn't mention must be OK?
Is that really what you think?
Post by shegeek72
What would the world be like without men? No war, no crime and a lot of
fat happy women!
There wouldn't be any women, there wouldn't be any human life at
all.
B.G. Kent
2006-10-19 02:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
There wouldn't be any women, there wouldn't be any human life at
all.
B - Yes and I love men. Demonizing men is not the answer...raising good
boys and men is.

I.M.O
Blessings
Bren
Matthew Johnson
2006-10-19 02:07:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Peoples reactions are interesting....
Your comments are disturbing...
Are they? Many of us find your comments FAR more disturbing. Why
should anyone agree with you and not with the rest of us?
Post by shegeek72
Post by r***@yahoo.com
But what if Jesus showed up and told Tara that homosexuality was
wrong........
Would Tara want to kill him? or hate him? or would he/she say that such
a person couldn't be Jesus?
I cannot understand how one could even suggest I'd want to kill or hate
Jesus - it's insulting!
And why do you feel so insulted? Does the truth hurt that much? How
would you _really_ react when He tells you what you have done to
yourself is wrong?

You have given us a pretty good clue already, with your reaction when
people in the NG tell you the same thing.
Post by shegeek72
It should be pointed out that Jesus said NOTHING about gender identity
or homosexuality.
But this isn't true. Not at all. See Mat 19:3-9.
Post by shegeek72
Certainly, if they were such "bad" things he would've
said something.
And this isn't true either. There were many topics he did not broach
for various reasons. That is why Paul's contributions to the NT are so
valuable.
Post by shegeek72
It's also an insult to refer to a trans person as "he/she."
Tough luck. You chose the ambiguity of your situation yourself, now
live with the consequences.
Post by shegeek72
However, I understand we are a misunderstood lot
And you do far more than your fair share of contributing to that
'misunderstanding'.
Post by shegeek72
and there's much ignorance in society, especially from those who are
from a culture where there's no history of a third gender, or
"two-spirit" (as in eastern and native Am. Indian cultures).
This nonsense of a "third gender" is pure fiction. It is pagan
superstition, as even the Wikipedia site makes easy to see.
Post by shegeek72
However, the question is moot as until Jesus actually returns in
physical form no one can speak for him.
Now that is a convenient cop-out!
Post by shegeek72
Tara
What would the world be like without men? No war, no crime and a lot of
fat happy women!
I am disappointed the Moderator allowed this post, when you included
this peevish, childish and sexist sentiment. I wish I could say I was
surprised.
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
shegeek72
2006-10-20 02:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Johnson
I never said that I did. Nor did I need to. For it is all too obvious
that almost anyone else in this NG has a better say than you do. You
have shown off your bias and ignorance far too often.
As have you.
Post by Matthew Johnson
Nonsense. He said quite a bit about it. But you did not understand any
of it. I wish I could say I was surprised.
The only verse you quoted concerned marriage and there was nothing said
against same-sex marriage.
Post by Matthew Johnson
Again, nonsense. Of course He does. He quotes Genesis, saying, "In the
beginning, He made them male and female (Mat 19:4)".
And your point is? It doesn't say he made only male and female does it?
We now know that there are variations in sex and gender, as I've
explained several times.
Post by Matthew Johnson
Once more, you show off your ignorance. That passage (Jn 8:1-12) was
_added_ later to the Gospel. Not everyone believes He even said that.
You just validated my point that no one has lock, stock and barrel on
what the Bible says and who said what.

Tara
--
Tara's Transgender Resources
http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem
Matthew Johnson
2006-10-23 03:34:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
I never said that I did. Nor did I need to. For it is all too obvious
that almost anyone else in this NG has a better say than you do. You
have shown off your bias and ignorance far too often.
As have you.
No.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
Nonsense. He said quite a bit about it. But you did not understand
any of it. I wish I could say I was surprised.
The only verse you quoted concerned marriage and there was nothing
said against same-sex marriage.
Have you already forgotten your own sweeping claim? Or do you think
the other readers in the NG have? They have not, and they are easily
reminded: you claimed FAR more than "Christ said nothing against
same-sex marriage".
Post by shegeek72
Jesus said_nothing_about who one chooses to love
or their gender identity.
And this is false, as I already showed. He described marriage as the
normal lot of most of mankind, and that as between man and woman. I
have explained in detail why this is so before. You ignored it,
pretending your ignorance is better than my knowledge of the original
language.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
Again, nonsense. Of course He does. He quotes Genesis, saying, "In
the beginning, He made them male and female (Mat 19:4)".
And your point is? It doesn't say he made only male and female does
it?
Yes, it does. Read it again. It says "He made _them_" and the "them"
refers to those who, at the time, were all of mankind. Therefore it
refers to the division of all mankind in to male and female.
Post by shegeek72
We now know that there are variations in sex and gender, as I've
explained several times.
And as I and others have also explained several times, all the
_genuine_, _natural_ distinctions boil down to one: that between male
and female mentioned in Mat 19:4.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
Once more, you show off your ignorance. That passage (Jn 8:1-12)
was _added_ later to the Gospel. Not everyone believes He even said
that.
You just validated my point that no one has lock, stock and barrel on
what the Bible says and who said what.
No, I did no such thing. All I did is show that YOU do not know what
you are talking about. No surprise there. Again: you show off your own
bias and ignorance by making such claims.
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
shegeek72
2006-10-23 03:34:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Johnson
Are they? Many of us find your comments FAR more disturbing. Why
should anyone agree with you and not with the rest of us?
A lot of the "rest of us" do agree with me, or haven't you noticed?
Post by Matthew Johnson
And why do you feel so insulted? Does the truth hurt that much?
Not at all - it isn't the truth.
Post by Matthew Johnson
How would you _really_ react when He tells you what you have done to
yourself is wrong?
Though I highly doubt he would, I'd say he'd need to brush up on his
study of transsexuality. :)
Post by Matthew Johnson
But this isn't true. Not at all. See Mat 19:3-9.
You've quoted this before. The section deals with marriage and says
nada about transsexuality. As I've pointed out before, no where in the
Bible does it say *only* males and females were created; nor does it
say "thou shall not change sex." You're entitled to how you interpert
the Bible, but don't expect others to agree.
Post by Matthew Johnson
Tough luck. You chose the ambiguity of your situation yourself, now
live with the consequences.
No ambiguity. I'm female: legally, chemically and anatomically (same as
a women whose had a hysterectomy).

See: http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem/letter.htm
Post by Matthew Johnson
And you do far more than your fair share of contributing to that
'misunderstanding'.
Not at all. I've done years of research and disseminate the latest and
most accurate information. How many (cough) years of research have you
(cough) done? Hmm?
Post by Matthew Johnson
This nonsense of a "third gender" is pure fiction. It is pagan
superstition, as even the Wikipedia site makes easy to see.
Nope. The two-spirt, or third gender, was well-accepted in native
American cultures, for example, the Iroqouis and Eastern Indians, i.e.
the Berdache. Obviously, you refuse to do research on something you
don't want to accept as true. Sorry, sticking your head in the sand
won't make it go away.
Post by Matthew Johnson
Post by shegeek72
However, the question is moot as until Jesus actually returns in
physical form no one can speak for him.
Now that is a convenient cop-out!
Baloney. It's a correct statement and you know it.
Post by Matthew Johnson
I am disappointed the Moderator allowed this post, when you included
this peevish, childish and sexist sentiment. I wish I could say I was
surprised.
Since you brought it up: sexism (oppression of women) has been part of
the Christian religion for hundreds of years - it's throughout the
Bible.

Or, do you refuse to believe that also?

Tara
--
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. - Napoleon
l***@hotmail.com
2006-11-06 02:57:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
Are they? Many of us find your comments FAR more disturbing. Why
should anyone agree with you and not with the rest of us?
A lot of the "rest of us" do agree with me, or haven't you noticed?
Who cares who has the majority? One with God is the ultimate majority.
Ever read Gibbons', "Rise and Decline of the Roman Empire"? What was
one of his classic signs of an empire in decline -homosexuality.

You are like modern day scientists who cling to their evolutionary
theories while rejecting the true science of creationism. They at
least admit that they cling to their evolutionism so that they may have
their sexual promiscuities. You cling to your promiscuity while
turning a blind eye to the biblical judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah.
God will not be mocked. "In the beginning He created them male and
female." It was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
.
B.G. Kent
2006-11-07 02:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
You are like modern day scientists who cling to their evolutionary
theories while rejecting the true science of creationism. They at
least admit that they cling to their evolutionism so that they may have
their sexual promiscuities. You cling to your promiscuity while
turning a blind eye to the biblical judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah.
God will not be mocked. "In the beginning He created them male and
female." It was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
B - Sigh...wow Isenders..that's the first time I heard THAT one!
(sarcasm). A note to you....making it rhyme does not make it true.
Who said God said any of that? My faith has little to do with
sex...although I think it is a gift from God. You sound as if you are very
very anti-sex indeed...this is what I get from your posts.
Then again....there was just that guy kicked from the Evangelical
church..you know the one? talked against gay marriage and yet was having
sex with a male prostitute himself? Methinks ye protests too much.


Bren
Paul
2006-11-10 03:59:04 UTC
Permalink
<***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2wx3h.1037$***@trnddc04...
<snip>> You are like modern day scientists who cling to their evolutionary
Post by l***@hotmail.com
theories while rejecting the true science of creationism. They at
least admit that they cling to their evolutionism so that they may have
their sexual promiscuities.
<snip>

Eh? As in, huh?? As in, whatchoo talkin' about, man???

Are you saying that [all / most / a notable number of] "modern day
scientists" are sexually promiscuous AND that THAT is why [the ones who do]
they believe in evolution????

WHAT?!

Loren, you usually make better sense, and (mostly, except when someone gets
under your skin) don't usually descend to this level of unfounded
over-generalization in personal attack..... I guess I'm hoping it will turn
out you just mis-stated something.....

In Christ,
Paul
Matthew Johnson
2006-11-11 04:35:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
<snip>> You are like modern day scientists who cling to their evolutionary
Post by l***@hotmail.com
theories while rejecting the true science of creationism. They at
least admit that they cling to their evolutionism so that they may have
their sexual promiscuities.
<snip>
Eh? As in, huh?? As in, whatchoo talkin' about, man???
Don't be too surprised. The idea Loren is talking about has been around ever
since the "modern day scientists" of the _19th_ century.
Post by Paul
Are you saying that [all / most / a notable number of] "modern day
scientists" are sexually promiscuous AND that THAT is why [the ones who do]
they believe in evolution????
WHAT?!
Loren, you usually make better sense,
I can't agree with that:-(
Post by Paul
and (mostly, except when someone gets
under your skin)
Ah, but you see, there are some people in this world who have so many "sacred
cows" that nobody can say anything substantive to them _without_ "getting under
his skin". And that is how they defend themselves from ever having to admit that
they are wrong, or that their positions are not well thought out, etc.
Post by Paul
don't usually descend to this level of unfounded
over-generalization in personal attack.....
No, he does this quite frequently. Today it is "modern scientists", on other
days it is "free-willers" or Catholics.
Post by Paul
I guess I'm hoping it will turn
out you just mis-stated something.....
Don't hold your breath. Do a Google search on Loren's posts instead. You will
find he really does believe that anyone who believes in evolution is doing the
work of the devil, and doing it to have an excuse for immoral behavior.
Post by Paul
In Christ,
Paul
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
l***@hotmail.com
2006-11-06 02:57:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Since you brought it up: sexism (oppression of women) has been part of
the Christian religion for hundreds of years - it's throughout the
Bible.
Oh how the revisionist howl! The historical record is clear.
Christianity freed women. And like most things, it had a pendulm
effect where it was once too far in the direction of domination to
which it swung too far in the opposite direction of freedom without
form. The biblical record is that of one where freedom and form were
to be in balance. The woman was placed under the man in office, not in
dignity. The woman's office was one of "adaptation", not as English
translations and false definitions seek to establish, "subserviance."
Eve was called forth as a "helpmeet." It wasn't until after the fall
that the union was cursed and the woman was forlorned to have "desire"
for her husband. Here again, a proper interpretation is required.
"Desire" means that she will ever seek to have dominion over her
husband who was Divinely placed over her.

A little correct bible understanding would go a long way if you would
but acccept its truth.
B.G. Kent
2006-11-07 02:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Post by shegeek72
Since you brought it up: sexism (oppression of women) has been part of
the Christian religion for hundreds of years - it's throughout the
Bible.
Oh how the revisionist howl! The historical record is clear.
Christianity freed women.
B - if by Christianity you mean the movement...I disagree. If my
Christianity you mean the spirit of God...I'd say yes.
The Pagan Celt women could divorce a man for hurting her...could have a
one night marriage (check the Brehon laws under a "soldiers marriage")
and many other kinds and there were laws to protect them. They got their
property they brought into a marriage back....they were even able to
accuse their husbands in court of not satisfying them enough! and the
court took this seriously! not that I think that is great...but I really
think you should read up a bit before generalizing about women and
Christianity. I remember hearing many women in the Catholic church being
told to forgive their husbands of rape or incest and just putting up with
it instead of being able to divorce. I don't believe Jesus would be for
this....as he supposedly was for all beings to be treated equally. I can't
see a woman being told by the Bible to not speak up and to be her husbands
submissive...as "freeing".

Try being a woman.

I.M.O
Bren
h***@geneva.rutgers.edu
2006-11-07 02:42:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Oh how the revisionist howl! The historical record is clear.
Christianity freed women.
B - if by Christianity you mean the movement...I disagree. If my
Christianity you mean the spirit of God...I'd say yes.
Rodney Stark is a sociologist who has recently been writing on Church
history. He has the advantage of looking at data on how religion
actually affected people. One of his early books looked at why
Christianity grew. He believes, and seems to have some evidence for
it, that one of the reasons was that it had very good consequences for
women.

Some of the things that seem anti-feminist now were not when they
originated. E.g. the acceptance of celibacy, and institutions to
support celibate women, provided women with the option of avoiding
marriage if they wanted to, something they normally would not have
been able to do.

Opposition to abortion was literally a life-saver. At the time the
usual methods were very dangerous, and women were normally forced into
it by men.

When you carry out policies beyond the circumstances that justified
them, you can get unfortunate results. I disagree with some current
Catholic and "traditional" Protestant ideas on women's issues. But
through much of its history Christianity did free women. And I suspect
that today in many parts of the world even traditional Christianity
has relatively good consequences for women. Personally I support types
of Christianity which encourage women to participate in all levels of
the Church.
B.G. Kent
2006-11-08 01:21:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@geneva.rutgers.edu
Christianity grew. He believes, and seems to have some evidence for
it, that one of the reasons was that it had very good consequences for
women.
Some of the things that seem anti-feminist now were not when they
originated. E.g. the acceptance of celibacy, and institutions to
B - It seems like more of a "yay! how wonderful a faith! instead of
our hands being chopped off...it is only our little fingers!" Yes it is
better in a relative way I would believe...but overall? I'm not sure.
Jesus and his ways were one thing.... Christianity as a
movement...another animal I believe.

Bren
Matthew Johnson
2006-10-25 00:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
Are they? Many of us find your comments FAR more disturbing. Why
should anyone agree with you and not with the rest of us?
A lot of the "rest of us" do agree with me, or haven't you noticed?
Post by Matthew Johnson
And why do you feel so insulted? Does the truth hurt that much?
Not at all - it isn't the truth.
Yes, it is.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
How would you _really_ react when He tells you what you have done to
yourself is wrong?
Though I highly doubt he would, I'd say he'd need to brush up on his
study of transsexuality. :)
Post by Matthew Johnson
But this isn't true. Not at all. See Mat 19:3-9.
You've quoted this before.
And you refused to recognize the plain truth then, too.
Post by shegeek72
The section deals with marriage and says nada about transsexuality.
Not true. As I already pointed out MANY TIMES now, the verb used for
"to marry" exists in two forms: one of a man marrying a woman, another
of a woman being led in marriage by a man. There is NO CONCEPT of
'marriage' outside of these in the culture of the time.
Post by shegeek72
As I've pointed out before, no where in the Bible does it say *only*
males and females were created;
This is patently false. I already explained why. Your only response
was a foot-stamping repetition of your own gross ignorance.
Post by shegeek72
nor does it say "thou shall not change sex."
But this is completely specious: that is like arguing that since
nuclear weapons are not mentioned in the Bible, using them on Mecca
is not forbidden.
Post by shegeek72
You're entitled to how you interpert the Bible, but don't expect
others to agree.
Another cop-out.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
Tough luck. You chose the ambiguity of your situation yourself, now
live with the consequences.
No ambiguity. I'm female: legally, chemically and anatomically (same
as a women whose had a hysterectomy).
See: http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem/letter.htm
I don't have to look at the letter to know it is wrong. You may be
female legally, but only because the laws of the state are
corrupt. You are certainly have no grounds to claim tyou are female
'chemically', since you yourself admit you have not had the genetic
testing done. As for anatomically, where are the Fallopian tubes? Or
since you prate about being the same as a woman who had a
hysterectomy, where are the marks where the incision was made?

No, you are only fooling yourself with these 'arguments'.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
And you do far more than your fair share of contributing to that
'misunderstanding'.
Not at all. I've done years of research and disseminate the latest and
most accurate information. How many (cough) years of research have you
(cough) done? Hmm?
What you call 'research' is no such thing.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
This nonsense of a "third gender" is pure fiction. It is pagan
superstition, as even the Wikipedia site makes easy to see.
Nope. The two-spirt, or third gender, was well-accepted in native
American cultures, for example, the Iroqouis and Eastern Indians, i.e.
the Berdache.
This proves nothing. LOTS of superstitions were "well-accepted in
native American cultures". Lots of superstitions are still accepted in
modern day culture.
Post by shegeek72
Obviously, you refuse to do research on something you
don't want to accept as true. Sorry, sticking your head in the sand
won't make it go away.
Then why are _you_ "sticking your head in the sand" all the time in
this NG? And yes, that is what you are really doing everytime you deny
what Scripture teaches concerning marriage an sexuality -- which is
very much in contradiction to the evil way of life you insist on
defending and practicing.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
Post by shegeek72
However, the question is moot as until Jesus actually returns in
physical form no one can speak for him.
Now that is a convenient cop-out!
Baloney. It's a correct statement and you know it.
No, it is not correct. What did you think "Vicar Christi" means?
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
I am disappointed the Moderator allowed this post, when you
included this peevish, childish and sexist sentiment. I wish I
could say I was surprised.
Since you brought it up: sexism (oppression of women) has been part
of the Christian religion for hundreds of years - it's throughout the
Bible.
Or, do you refuse to believe that also?
Of course I do. Because it is not true. On the contrary: the fact that
you raise your accusation confirms your intensely ahistorical
anti-christian bias and general ignorance.
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
shegeek72
2006-10-26 04:40:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Johnson
Not true. As I already pointed out MANY TIMES now, the verb used for
"to marry" exists in two forms: one of a man marrying a woman, another
of a woman being led in marriage by a man. There is NO CONCEPT of
'marriage' outside of these in the culture of the time.
Uh, what does marriage got to do with transsexuality? They are two
separate things.
Post by Matthew Johnson
Post by shegeek72
As I've pointed out before, no where in the Bible does it say *only*
males and females were created;
This is patently false. I already explained why. Your only response
was a foot-stamping repetition of your own gross ignorance.
Then please quote the section and verse where it specfically says ONLY
males and females were created. Even if you could come up with some
reaching interpretation, intersexed people blow that concept out of the
water.
Post by Matthew Johnson
I don't have to look at the letter to know it is wrong. You may be
female legally, but only because the laws of the state are
corrupt.
Then federal laws also must be "corrupt," as it says female on my
passport and social security and will soon say so on my birth
certificate.
Post by Matthew Johnson
You are certainly have no grounds to claim tyou are female
'chemically', since you yourself admit you have not had the genetic
testing done.
Genetics is genes; hormones are chemicals. Since my last hormonal lab
test showed levels of estrogen and testosterone in line with a genetic
female, I most certainly am female chemically / hormonally. You just
refuse to believe facts when they're not inline with your religious
beliefs. I prefer to believe medical science over religious beliefs
when the two conflict. For example, Galileo was convicted of heresy and
sentenced to house arrest for the remainder of his life because of his
ideas that the heavens didn't revolve around the earth.

Unfortunately, a similar situation exists with people who believe as
you. All the scientific research in the world on transsexualism
wouldn't convince you (as you refuse to accept the third gender in some
cultures), so it's pointless arguing with you.

Then why do I continue to do so? For entertainment and wit sharpening.
:P

Tara
--
Tara's Transgender Resources
http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem
Matthew Johnson
2006-10-31 02:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
Not true. As I already pointed out MANY TIMES now, the verb used
for "to marry" exists in two forms: one of a man marrying a woman,
another of a woman being led in marriage by a man. There is NO
CONCEPT of 'marriage' outside of these in the culture of the time.
Uh, what does marriage got to do with transsexuality?
I already answered that question. In fact, the answer is staring you
in the face in the text you included above.
Post by shegeek72
They are two separate things.
No, they are not, as explained above; 'marriage' in the Bible is
ALWAYS between a man and a woman.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
Post by shegeek72
As I've pointed out before, no where in the Bible does it say *only*
males and females were created;
This is patently false. I already explained why. Your only response
was a foot-stamping repetition of your own gross ignorance.
Then please quote the section and verse where it specfically says ONLY
males and females were created.
I did. Genesis 1:27. And I already explained why the wording implies
ONLY males and females. You only further establish your ignorance and
obduracy by repeating the question.

Recall:

And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He
him; male and female created He them. (Gen 1:27 JPS)

That is: all of existing mankind was made "male and female". One
each. No inbetweens, no "third gender".
Post by shegeek72
Even if you could come up with some reaching interpretation,
intersexed people blow that concept out of the water.
That of course, is your _dream_. That is why you come up with shoddy
rationalization after shoddy rationalization for your perversion. But
it is still only a dream no matter how much pseudo-scientific
'evidence' you come up with. No, they do NOT "blow that concept out
of the water". I have already explained the reson for this to you too.

But you pretend not to know. Thus confirming not only your ignorance,
but your deep dishonesty too.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
I don't have to look at the letter to know it is wrong. You may be
female legally, but only because the laws of the state are
corrupt.
Then federal laws also must be "corrupt," as it says female on my
passport and social security and will soon say so on my birth
certificate.
Obviously if the law is allowing the change to even the birth
certificate, it must be corrupt. You were not born female.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
You are certainly have no grounds to claim you are female
'chemically', since you yourself admit you have not had the genetic
testing done.
Genetics is genes; hormones are chemicals.
What pseudo-scientific babble is this? Genes _are_ chemical.
Post by shegeek72
Since my last hormonal lab test showed levels of estrogen and
testosterone in line with a genetic female, I most certainly am
female chemically / hormonally.
No, that does not follow. That would follow only if your own body were
making those hormones on its own, without the assistance of any
drugs/hormones you take. But you have to take HRT levels of estrogen
for the rest of your life once the post-op year of dangerous levesl of
hormones is over.
Post by shegeek72
You just refuse to believe facts when they're not inline with your
religious beliefs.
Since you just denied that genes were chemical in nature, I would say
that accusation fits you better. Since you claim to be the same as a
natural female despite having to continue to take hormones, that
accusation really does fit you better.
Post by shegeek72
I prefer to believe medical science over religious beliefs when the
two conflict.
No, you do not. For you just denied that genes were chemical in
nature, So once again, I would say that accusation fits you better.

But even worse than that, you have to cite pagan superstition as the
_sole_ support for your own pagan belief in the existence of a "third
gender". That proves to the whole NG that you haven't even got a
_clue_ what it means to believe medical science.

Therefore, yet _again_ your own words prove you do NOT "believe
science [medical or not] over religious beliefs".

Keep digging yourself deeper into the hole.
Post by shegeek72
For example, Galileo was convicted of heresy and sentenced to house
arrest for the remainder of his life because of his ideas that the
heavens didn't revolve around the earth.
How typical of you, that you bring up as an example, a historical
incident you do NOT understand. Galileo was not condemned because he
taught heliocentricism, he was condemned because he was stiff-necked,
obnoxious and stubborn. If he had been more accomodating to his own
personal friend who had been elected Pope, he would have been allowed
to continue to believe it without abjuring it, and to teach it
quietly.

But like you, he was too inflexible. He chose open confrontation
instead, so he turned it into an issue of papal power and lost.
Post by shegeek72
Unfortunately, a similar situation exists with people who believe as
you.
Not at all, no matter how often you repeat this groundlessly.
Post by shegeek72
All the scientific research in the world on transsexualism wouldn't
convince you (as you refuse to accept the third gender in some
cultures), so it's pointless arguing with you.
Nice try, but wrong. As I pointed out above, the so-called "scientific
evidence" you give us is nothing but pagan superstition. So what makes
it "pointless arguing with you" is your own totally irrational
acceptance of pagan superstition as 'evidence'.

So it is you, not I, who has made it "pointless arguing". So yet once
again, the accusation you level at me fits you MUCH better.
Post by shegeek72
Then why do I continue to do so? For entertainment and wit
sharpening.
Then it isn't working, Your wits are NOT getting sharper. The only
thing that is getting 'sharper' is the VERY sharp contrast between
your delusional words and all common sense.

But of course, this is only to be expected after you have spent so
much time, money and effort carving your beloved lie into your own
flesh.
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
shegeek72
2006-11-01 01:46:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew Johnson
No, they are not, as explained above; 'marriage' in the Bible is
ALWAYS between a man and a woman.
Again, you try to draw transsexuality, which is gender identity, into
marrage, as if they were synonymous, when they are not. However,
marriage_does_factor in if a MTF is heterosexual and marries a man, or
a FTM marries a woman. Then they would be following the illustration
you quoted from the Bible.
Post by Matthew Johnson
That of course, is your _dream_. That is why you come up with shoddy
rationalization after shoddy rationalization for your perversion. But
it is still only a dream no matter how much pseudo-scientific
'evidence' you come up with. No, they do NOT "blow that concept out
of the water". I have already explained the reson for this to you too.
No, you have not, for intersexed people are a_combination_of the two
sexes. Therefore, God created more than strictly male and female, or
can you not comprehend that?
Post by Matthew Johnson
Obviously if the law is allowing the change to even the birth
certificate, it must be corrupt. You were not born female.
Your point is? I may not have been born phentypically female. However,
the lastest evidence indicates I was born with a female brain. Since a
female brain would produce a female gender identity, I was born female
in that sense. Therefore, the laws are not corrupt. I doubt that we
would be recognized in so many ways, on both state and federal levels,
if the laws were "corrupt."
Post by Matthew Johnson
What pseudo-scientific babble is this? Genes _are_ chemical.
Genes are the basic physical unit of heredity; a linear sequence of
nucleotides along a segment of DNA that provides the coded instructions
for synthesis of RNA, which, when translated into protein, leads to the
expression of hereditary character. You're confusing genes with
hormones, which are bio-chemical.
Post by Matthew Johnson
No, that does not follow. That would follow only if your own body were
making those hormones on its own, without the assistance of any
drugs/hormones you take.
So a post-menopausal woman is not a woman because her body does not
produce estrogen?
Post by Matthew Johnson
But you have to take HRT levels of estrogen
for the rest of your life once the post-op year of dangerous levesl of
hormones is over.
Huh? What "dangerous levels" are you talking about? Once one is post-op
the hormone levels are regulated by the intake of estrogen, and perhaps
progesterone, for the MTF and testosterone for the FTM. Nothing
dangerous there, unless one takes too much.
Post by Matthew Johnson
Since you just denied that genes were chemical in nature, I would say
that accusation fits you better. Since you claim to be the same as a
natural female despite having to continue to take hormones, that
accusation really does fit you better.
See my reply about post-menopausal women.
Post by Matthew Johnson
But even worse than that, you have to cite pagan superstition as the
_sole_ support for your own pagan belief in the existence of a "third
gender".
Revisionist history. The third-gender, or two-spirit,
is_not_superstition. They were actual people. You need to brush up on
your native American Indian, and Eastern Indian, history.
Post by Matthew Johnson
How typical of you, that you bring up as an example, a historical
incident you do NOT understand. Galileo was not condemned because he
taught heliocentricism, he was condemned because he was stiff-necked,
obnoxious and stubborn. If he had been more accomodating to his own
personal friend who had been elected Pope, he would have been allowed
to continue to believe it without abjuring it, and to teach it
quietly.
Baloney. Why the hell should he have been required to "teach quietly"
such revoluntionary discoveries. Should we have required Einstein to
"quietly teach" his theory of relativity? Or Newton's ideas about
gravity? The church was wrong, period, and they should've admitted it.
But like you, they were too stubborn.

It's time to come up to the 21st century. :)
--
Tara's Transgender Resources
http://users4.ev1.net/~taragem
Matthew Johnson
2006-11-03 03:18:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
No, they are not, as explained above; 'marriage' in the Bible is
ALWAYS between a man and a woman.
Again, you try to draw transsexuality, which is gender identity, into
marrage, as if they were synonymous,
Again you try to paint my reasoning as wrong, when it is yours that is
SO wrong. No, I do NOT treat them 'as if they were synonymous". By no
means.

If you really have this much trouble following another person's
argument, you realy should just give up.
Post by shegeek72
when they are not. However, marriage_does_factor in if a MTF is
heterosexual and marries a man, or a FTM marries a woman. Then they
would be following the illustration you quoted from the Bible.
Post by Matthew Johnson
That of course, is your _dream_. That is why you come up with
shoddy rationalization after shoddy rationalization for your
perversion. But it is still only a dream no matter how much
pseudo-scientific 'evidence' you come up with. No, they do NOT
"blow that concept out of the water". I have already explained the
reson for this to you too.
No, you have not, for intersexed people are a_combination_of the two
sexes. Therefore, God created more than strictly male and female, or
can you not comprehend that?
You have misunderstood. You havce misunderstood in a _particularly_
childish and irresponsible way. No, it does NOT follow that "God
created more than strictly male and female". For I was referring to
the same thing Christ was referrign to, to the _original_ creation of
the human race. And at that time, two persons were created, one male,
one female.

This expresses our purely natural state. Degradation from that is NOT
due to the creative activity of God, but due to the Fall.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
Obviously if the law is allowing the change to even the birth
certificate, it must be corrupt. You were not born female.
Your point is?
My point is obvious to all except the pig-headed, such as yourself.
Post by shegeek72
I may not have been born phentypically female.
The word is 'phenotypically'. What a dunce you are!
Post by shegeek72
However, the lastest evidence indicates I was born with a female
brain.
No, that is not 'evidence'.
Post by shegeek72
Since a female brain would produce a female gender identity,
This is pure speculation.
Post by shegeek72
I was born female in that sense.
Ah, but that 'sense' is nonsense.
Post by shegeek72
Therefore, the laws are not corrupt.
That does not follow.
Post by shegeek72
I doubt that we would be recognized in so many ways, on both state
and federal levels, if the laws were "corrupt."
But that only illustrates your ignorance. the law _often_ recognizes
as legal, what is in fact very corrupt. Such was the case, according
to your own way of thinking, wiht the laws that allowed slavery for so
long. Such was the case , again according to your own way of thinking,
with te laws that did not allow women to own their own property. Yet
they held the force of law for centuries.

So no, your doubt is _completely_ unjustifiable.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
What pseudo-scientific babble is this? Genes _are_ chemical.
Genes are the basic physical unit of heredity; a linear sequence of
nucleotides along a segment of DNA that provides the coded
instructions for synthesis of RNA, which, when translated into
protein, leads to the expression of hereditary character. You're
confusing genes with hormones, which are bio-chemical.
Again you dig yourself deeper into a hole, showing off your pathetic
ignorance. You use the word 'nucleotides', admitting that they are the
building blocks of genes. But what did you think nucleotides are? They
are CHEMICALS.

No, it is you who is confusing things.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
No, that does not follow. That would follow only if your own body
were making those hormones on its own, without the assistance of
any drugs/hormones you take.
So a post-menopausal woman is not a woman because her body does not
produce estrogen?
We have been over this before. The answer is NO. The reason is that
she _is_ POST-menopausal. You never _had_ menopause.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
But you have to take HRT levels of estrogen for the rest of your
life once the post-op year of dangerous levesl of hormones is over.
Huh? What "dangerous levels" are you talking about?
You are the one who claims to have done all this 'research'. Take a
look at the articles on Medline about the high levels of hormones
given to transsexuals for up to an entire _year_ after surgery.
Post by shegeek72
Once one is post-op the hormone levels are regulated by the intake of
estrogen, and perhaps progesterone, for the MTF and testosterone for
the FTM. Nothing dangerous there, unless one takes too much.
You illustrate your ignorance here. See above.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
Since you just denied that genes were chemical in nature, I would say
that accusation fits you better. Since you claim to be the same as a
natural female despite having to continue to take hormones, that
accusation really does fit you better.
See my reply about post-menopausal women.
I saw it. It was nonsense.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
But even worse than that, you have to cite pagan superstition as the
_sole_ support for your own pagan belief in the existence of a "third
gender".
Revisionist history. The third-gender, or two-spirit,
is_not_superstition. They were actual people. You need to brush up on
your native American Indian, and Eastern Indian, history.
No, you need to brush up on really _basic_ epistemology. You also need
to learn to READ. I never said the people did not exist. I said the
belief that they were a "third gender" is superstition.

Really, you only make a fool of yourself by making straw-man
rejoinders like this.
Post by shegeek72
Post by Matthew Johnson
How typical of you, that you bring up as an example, a historical
incident you do NOT understand. Galileo was not condemned because he
taught heliocentricism, he was condemned because he was stiff-necked,
obnoxious and stubborn. If he had been more accomodating to his own
personal friend who had been elected Pope, he would have been allowed
to continue to believe it without abjuring it, and to teach it
quietly.
[snip]
Post by shegeek72
It's time to come up to the 21st century. :)
Which you have yet to do, since you are showing misunderstandings of
chemistry and epistemology that would have been disgraceful even in
the 19th.
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
l***@hotmail.com
2006-11-06 02:57:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Uh, what does marriage got to do with transsexuality?
Then please quote the section and verse where it specfically says ONLY
males and females were created.
"Male and female, He created them."

"Trans" gender is, sorry but it is true, laughable. Nothing, by the
will of man, transcends. It always degenerates.

Nor can your resort to "neither male nor female" for later it is
written by the same author, "husbands love your wives" and "wives adapt
yourselves to your husbands." The grammatical gender distinction is
there if you would but look.
B.G. Kent
2006-11-07 02:42:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Post by shegeek72
Uh, what does marriage got to do with transsexuality?
Then please quote the section and verse where it specfically says ONLY
males and females were created.
"Male and female, He created them."
"Trans" gender is, sorry but it is true, laughable. Nothing, by the
will of man, transcends. It always degenerates.
B - Gee how loving Isender. For some reason you might be able to see
someone being born with an extra limb as righteous in having it operated
on to remove it...but you don't think a person can be born into the wrong
gender? It seems you have very little love of God in my opinion.amazing.

Bren
shegeek72
2006-11-07 02:43:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@hotmail.com
"Trans" gender is, sorry but it is true, laughable. Nothing, by the
will of man, transcends. It always degenerates.
Intersexed people (as well as gays and lesbians) have probably been
around since the dawn of humans. Therefore, it's obvious there are
other sexes than strictly male and female. Intersexed people are not
"degenerates;" they are natural variations in sexuality that occur in 1
in 200 births.

As for transgender being "laughable," how many transgender people do
you know and how many TG support groups/lectures have you attended?

If you knew the struggles, hardships, discrimination, bashing and
murders of TG and how intelligent and creative (Indeed, there's good
evidence that TG/TS people are, on average, more intellient and
creative than non-TG/TS people) you wouldn't use the derogatory:
"laughable."

I don't know anyone who has talked with, or associated with, TG people
for awhile that does not come away with a better understanding and
appreciation of TG folks.
Post by l***@hotmail.com
Nor can your resort to "neither male nor female" for later it is
written by the same author, "husbands love your wives" and "wives adapt
yourselves to your husbands." The grammatical gender distinction is
there if you would but look.
Again, marriage and transsexuality are two separate subjects. As for
your remark: "if you would look," if you meant the Bible, I've read it
off and on for 20 years.
--
growth /n./ 1. The justification for tax cuts for the rich. 2. What
happens to the national debt when policy is made according to
Definition #1.
B.G. Kent
2006-11-08 01:21:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
Post by l***@hotmail.com
"Trans" gender is, sorry but it is true, laughable. Nothing, by the
will of man, transcends. It always degenerates.
Intersexed people (as well as gays and lesbians) have probably been
around since the dawn of humans. Therefore, it's obvious there are
Brenda says:

long ago...people with left hands dominant were told that they were of the
devil.

Even though this slowly...very slowly changed over time...lefties were
still forced to use their right hands...to fit in and be one of the crowd.
People still did..and some still do..think they are defects.

Today most people seem to accept left handedness as just a rarer
thing...not moralizing over it..but just that it is different and a bit
unique.

May being different or rare in other ways....go this route ....at least
the end part. If you can get past the earlier stuff...then consider
yourself lucky.

hugs,
Leftie Brenda
shegeek72
2006-11-11 04:35:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by B.G. Kent
May being different or rare in other ways....go this route ....at least
the end part. If you can get past the earlier stuff...then consider
yourself lucky.
Ah, a fellow south paw (I'm left-handed). :) I've noticed a
preponderance of lefties among TG people. Though I have some
ambidextrousness: use scissors, play guitar and throw frisbee with me
right hand. Mum can write her name with equal dexterity with either
hand - amazing to watch.

I agree that different people have been, and are, feared. I think
that's a reason for transphobia: xenophobia. Then add some fabricated
religious reason and phobias are reinforced.

hugs back at ya
--
Difference is not disease, nonconformity is not pathology, and
uniqueness is not illness.
B.G. Kent
2006-11-13 02:06:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by shegeek72
I agree that different people have been, and are, feared. I think
that's a reason for transphobia: xenophobia. Then add some fabricated
religious reason and phobias are reinforced.
hugs back at ya
B - Makes sense in an nonsensical way really....it's sad. I know two
transgendered people ...both male to female and they are lovely normal
folks.

Blessings
Bren

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