Cardinal Husar on Unity

[T***@aol.com]

It never seems to amaze me the things that come out of the mouth of
Cardinal Husar. Is he really that misinformed or is it just his way
of playing to a religiously deficient public?

What in God's name does he think one's faith is if it isn't based one
the THEOLOGY one believes and upholds?

================================

Here goes:

Interview with Patriarch Lubomyr (Husatr) the Primate and Father of
the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church:

Q. In your view, what are the conditions necessary for achieving
Eucharistic Communion between the faithful, who are members of the
Orthodox and Catholic Churches? Is it not an absolute requirement to
have a common theology of marriage, the Filioque, purgatory and the
like?

A. No. Our position is very practical. We believe that we do not have
any differences with the Orthodox with respect to faith. Questions
such as purgatory, the Immaculate Conception or the Filioque are
issues of theology, not of faith. There are various theological
perspectives, but they are simply complementary. In any event, they do
not represent a different faith. With respect to intercommunion, our
position is this: If a Catholic is in a place where there is no
Catholic church, he may freely go to the Orthodox church and receive
the Mysteries there. And, conversely, if an Orthodox cannot find an
Orthodox priest, we do not refuse him the Mysteries, especially those
of Holy Confession and Holy Communion.

The interviewer was the professor of the Ukrainian Catholic
Univeristy, Antoine Arzhakovsky (Lviv, 26 January 2004).

=============

Orthodoc (Bob Tallick)

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by T***@aol.com
It never seems to amaze me the things that come out of the mouth of
Cardinal Husar. Is he really that misinformed or is it just his way
of playing to a religiously deficient public?

My guess is the latter. After all, the Uniates have had a policy of
such deception for centuries now (as Metropolitan Makary
documented). I could still see the fruit of this deception in my own
recent trip to Ukraine, when I discovered the Uniates and schismatics
had been very successful in "poisoning the well" in all public debate
concerning religious issues, and even on separation between church and
state. What I am referring to is an example of the "religious
deficiency" you yourself referred to, that the man on the street has
no clue what the difference is between the four different churches
claiming to be Orthodox there.

Post by T***@aol.com
What in God's name does he think one's faith is if it isn't based one
the THEOLOGY one believes and upholds?

Good question.

Post by T***@aol.com
================================
Interview with Patriarch Lubomyr (Husatr) the Primate and Father of
Q. In your view, what are the conditions necessary for achieving
Eucharistic Communion between the faithful, who are members of the
Orthodox and Catholic Churches? Is it not an absolute requirement to
have a common theology of marriage, the Filioque, purgatory and the
like?

The interviewer was clearly setting himself up for the Patriarch to
respond with the "fallacy of the complex question". For he combined
far too many separate issues in one question.

Post by T***@aol.com
A. No. Our position is very practical.

Obviously the Orthodox do not agree;)

Post by T***@aol.com
We believe that we do not have any differences with the Orthodox with
respect to faith. Questions such as purgatory, the Immaculate
Conception or the Filioque are issues of theology, not of faith.

Now this leaves me wondering what he thinks the difference between
"issue of faith" and "issue of theology".

Post by T***@aol.com
There are various theological perspectives, but they are simply
complementary.

Now this is amazing! If he really believes they are "simply
complementary", then why has Rome been insisting on the Filioque so
loudly for so long?

Post by T***@aol.com
In any event, they do not represent a different faith.

I'm not sure when it startd, but the Roman Church has long classified
the Eastern Orthodox not as 'heretics', but as 'schismatics'. So far,
all of Cardinal Husar's answers have conformed to this classification
perfectly.

Post by T***@aol.com
With respect to intercommunion, our position is this: If a Catholic
is in a place where there is no Catholic church, he may freely go to
the Orthodox church and receive the Mysteries there.

Now here he is simply being dishonest. It may very well be the case
that the _Catholic_ Church will allow it. But the Orthodox Church does
not allow this. This is as it should be. Church unity _must_ preceed
shared Communion. It has _always_ been this way in the Orthodox East.

Now I realize this is not intuitively obvious to many readers in this
NG. Espeically since among Protestants intercommunion has had a very
different role in recent decades.

Post by T***@aol.com
And, conversely, if an Orthodox cannot find an Orthodox priest, we do
not refuse him the Mysteries, especially those of Holy Confession and
Holy Communion.

This too is the same dishonesty. The Orthodox allow no such thing, and
this is exactly as it should be. But the Ukrainian Catholics like to
paint this dishonesty as generosity on their part, to deceive more and
more into following them away from the Orthodox Church -- as has been
their policy since the pseudo-council of Brest-Litovsk in 1596.

Post by T***@aol.com
The interviewer was the professor of the Ukrainian Catholic
Univeristy, Antoine Arzhakovsky (Lviv, 26 January 2004).

One would think that a university _professor_ should have known better
than to ask the questions he did, and accept the answers he did;) But
then again, since they were both Catholic, they probably both embraced
the same policy -- that same policy that has they have used as a
plague on the Orthodox East since Brest-Litovsk.

The best history of all this I have found on the Net was written by
Metropolitan Makary of Moscow and Kolomensk and is at
http://magister.msk.ru/library/history/makary/mak4004.htm. Unfortunately,
it is all in Russian. And Google's translate function does not do very
well on this 19th century Russian.

Now I know some people will think that his history of it is biased, if
for no other reason, than at least because Metropolitan Makary was
Metropolitan of Moscow, of the same Church we now know as the Moscow
Patriarchate. But there is a very good reason _not_ to jump to this
conclusion: Metropolitan Makary was quite blunt about accepting blame
on the part of the Russian Orthodox Church for the very low state of
spirituality among the Orthodox clergy in Ukraine, the Baltics and
Poland, which in turn made them all a _very_ tempting target for
Catholic takeover.

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by T***@aol.com
It never seems to amaze me the things that come out of the mouth of
Cardinal Husar. Is he really that misinformed or is it just his way
of playing to a religiously deficient public?

My guess is the latter. After all, the Uniates have had a policy of
such deception for centuries now (as Metropolitan Makary
documented). I could still see the fruit of this deception in my own
recent trip to Ukraine, when I discovered the Uniates and schismatics
had been very successful in "poisoning the well" in all public debate
concerning religious issues, and even on separation between church and
state. What I am referring to is an example of the "religious
deficiency" you yourself referred to, that the man on the street has
no clue what the difference is between the four different churches
claiming to be Orthodox there.

Post by T***@aol.com
What in God's name does he think one's faith is if it isn't based one
the THEOLOGY one believes and upholds?

Good question.

Post by T***@aol.com
================================
Interview with Patriarch Lubomyr (Husatr) the Primate and Father of
Q. In your view, what are the conditions necessary for achieving
Eucharistic Communion between the faithful, who are members of the
Orthodox and Catholic Churches? Is it not an absolute requirement to
have a common theology of marriage, the Filioque, purgatory and the
like?

The interviewer was clearly setting himself up for the Patriarch to
respond with the "fallacy of the complex question". For he combined
far too many separate issues in one question.

Post by T***@aol.com
A. No. Our position is very practical.

Obviously the Orthodox do not agree;)

Post by T***@aol.com
We believe that we do not have any differences with the Orthodox with
respect to faith. Questions such as purgatory, the Immaculate
Conception or the Filioque are issues of theology, not of faith.

Now this leaves me wondering what he thinks the difference between
"issue of faith" and "issue of theology".

Post by T***@aol.com
There are various theological perspectives, but they are simply
complementary.

Now this is amazing! If he really believes they are "simply
complementary", then why has Rome been insisting on the Filioque so
loudly for so long?

Post by T***@aol.com
In any event, they do not represent a different faith.

I'm not sure when it startd, but the Roman Church has long classified
the Eastern Orthodox not as 'heretics', but as 'schismatics'. So far,
all of Cardinal Husar's answers have conformed to this classification
perfectly.

Post by T***@aol.com
With respect to intercommunion, our position is this: If a Catholic
is in a place where there is no Catholic church, he may freely go to
the Orthodox church and receive the Mysteries there.

Now here he is simply being dishonest. It may very well be the case
that the _Catholic_ Church will allow it. But the Orthodox Church does
not allow this. This is as it should be. Church unity _must_ preceed
shared Communion. It has _always_ been this way in the Orthodox East.

Now I realize this is not intuitively obvious to many readers in this
NG. Espeically since among Protestants intercommunion has had a very
different role in recent decades.

Post by T***@aol.com
And, conversely, if an Orthodox cannot find an Orthodox priest, we do
not refuse him the Mysteries, especially those of Holy Confession and
Holy Communion.

This too is the same dishonesty. The Orthodox allow no such thing, and
this is exactly as it should be. But the Ukrainian Catholics like to
paint this dishonesty as generosity on their part, to deceive more and
more into following them away from the Orthodox Church -- as has been
their policy since the pseudo-council of Brest-Litovsk in 1596.

Post by T***@aol.com
The interviewer was the professor of the Ukrainian Catholic
Univeristy, Antoine Arzhakovsky (Lviv, 26 January 2004).

One would think that a university _professor_ should have known better
than to ask the questions he did, and accept the answers he did;) But
then again, since they were both Catholic, they probably both embraced
the same policy -- that same policy that has they have used as a
plague on the Orthodox East since Brest-Litovsk.

The best history of all this I have found on the Net was written by
Metropolitan Makary of Moscow and Kolomensk and is at
http://magister.msk.ru/library/history/makary/mak4004.htm. Unfortunately,
it is all in Russian. And Google's translate function does not do very
well on this 19th century Russian.

Now I know some people will think that his history of it is biased, if
for no other reason, than at least because Metropolitan Makary was
Metropolitan of Moscow, of the same Church we now know as the Moscow
Patriarchate. But there is a very good reason _not_ to jump to this
conclusion: Metropolitan Makary was quite blunt about accepting blame
on the part of the Russian Orthodox Church for the very low state of
spirituality among the Orthodox clergy in Ukraine, the Baltics and
Poland, which in turn made them all a _very_ tempting target for
Catholic takeover.

[shegeek72]

Post by T***@aol.com
What in God's name does he think one's faith is if it isn't based one
the THEOLOGY one believes and upholds?

Theology varies widely within Christian communities; whether one is
Catholic, Protestant, Unitarian, etc. we still honor and pray to the
same God and Savior. Problems arise when one holds the belief that
their theology is the only right one, or 'truth.'
--
Tara's Transgender Resources
http://tarasresources.net

Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.mccchurch.org

[R P]

Post by shegeek72
Theology varies widely within Christian communities; whether one is
Catholic, Protestant, Unitarian, etc. we still honor and pray to the
same God and Savior. Problems arise when one holds the belief that
their theology is the only right one, or 'truth.'

Amen!