Young Church/Christian People's Biggest Questions

[* irenic *]

Here's a list of some of the questions I'm asked occasionally/regularly by
young people (of all ages, mostly Christians) and my responses... How would
you respond?

Is Masturbation sinful? (http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4884.htm )

How Would Jesus Relate to Homosexuals?
(http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/12135.htm )

What Books Should Thoughtful Christians Read?
(http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/8073.htm )

Should Women be in Pastoral Leadership?
(http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/8195.htm )

How Can We Enrich our Marriage? ( http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/15380.htm )

What's a pastor/clergyperson supposed to be doing? (
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/8109.htm )

Was Jesus a Christian? ( http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/9664.htm )

How am I supposed to understand the Book of Revelation? (
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/2265.htm )

I have a friend who needs counselling... how can I help? (
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/8541.htm )

Is Gandhi in Heaven? ( http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4813.htm )

How do I cope with being a Christian Single? (
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4857.htm )

Are women and men really so different? (
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4913.htm )

Why is Christians disagreeing with one another such a problem for some of
them? ( http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/2975.htm )

If God is good and powerful, why is there so much evil/suffering? (
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4810.htm )

Sex with Animals (yes, that's a common question among teenagers!) (
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/11972.htm )
--
Shalom! Rowland Croucher

"If only it were so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere
insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary to separate them
from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil
cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy
a piece of his own heart?" Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/ - 17,000 articles; 4000 jokes/funnies

[Steve Hayes]

Post by * irenic *
Here's a list of some of the questions I'm asked occasionally/regularly by
young people (of all ages, mostly Christians) and my responses... How would
you respond?
Is Masturbation sinful? (http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4884.htm )

Others that young people may be asking even more:

Will a shower stop me getting Aids?

How can I get a job?

Where can I get a bursary for further study?

[B.G. Kent]

Post by Steve Hayes

Post by * irenic *
Here's a list of some of the questions I'm asked occasionally/regularly by
young people (of all ages, mostly Christians) and my responses... How would
you respond?
Is Masturbation sinful? (http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4884.htm )

B - Uhm...no? no more than take the pressure out of your garden hose by
unkinking it.
It actually keeps your prostate healthy (if a guy obviously)and teaches
you about what feels
good to you so that you can tell your future intended.

Post by Steve Hayes
Will a shower stop me getting Aids?

B - Uhm...this child must either be really young or missing a few brain
cells..sadly. No..a Shower will not stop you from getting Aids. Either no
oral/anal/genital sex at all...or using a condom MAY help.

Post by Steve Hayes
How can I get a job?

B - Look in the want ads or create your own home business.

Post by Steve Hayes
Where can I get a bursary for further study?

B - ask a teacher.

Bren

[Pastor Dave]

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by B.G. Kent

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful? (http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4884.htm )

B - Uhm...no?

It falls under lust. If one is a Christian, the most
they would be able to argue (and I'm not saying
this justifies it) is that they think about their
wife while doing it.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\

"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."

The Last Days were in the first century:

"A LITTLE WHILE, and ye shall not see me:
and again, A LITTLE WHILE and ye shall
see me, because I go to the Father."
- John 16:16

[* irenic *]

Post by Pastor Dave
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful? (http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4884.htm )

It falls under lust. If one is a Christian, the most
they would be able to argue (and I'm not saying
this justifies it) is that they think about their
wife while doing it.

Or husband...

Actually, in my little counselling practice, women have more guilt about
this than males do...

And many of both genders do not use their imagination at all while
masturbating...
--
Shalom! Rowland Croucher

"If only it were so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere
insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary to separate them
from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil
cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy
a piece of his own heart?" Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/ - 17,000 articles; 4000 jokes/funnies

[Pastor Dave]

On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 02:33:49 GMT, * irenic *

Post by * irenic *

Post by Pastor Dave
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful? (http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4884.htm )

It falls under lust. If one is a Christian, the most
they would be able to argue (and I'm not saying
this justifies it) is that they think about their
wife while doing it.

Or husband...

It does go both ways. :)

Post by * irenic *
Actually, in my little counselling practice, women have more guilt about
this than males do...
And many of both genders do not use their imagination at all while
masturbating...

That may be true. I was not saying it is, or isn't okay
to do. As I said, "the most that can be said...".

Personally, I see that the Scripture tells us to come
together so lust isn't a problem and not to deny
each other. That leaves only those who are single
and they don't have a spouse to think about.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\

"For the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword."

When Christianity becomes religion,
it leaves the heart hungry.

[Jani]

Post by * irenic *

Post by Pastor Dave
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful? (http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/4884.htm )

It falls under lust. If one is a Christian, the most
they would be able to argue (and I'm not saying
this justifies it) is that they think about their
wife while doing it.

Or husband...

Wives don't waste seed. This may be relevant ;)

Post by * irenic *
Actually, in my little counselling practice, women have more guilt about
this than males do...

That's because men can hardly ignore the physical condition which requires
the practice, so to speak, whereas women can.

Post by * irenic *
And many of both genders do not use their imagination at all while
masturbating...

True. But are you talking about disposing of a rather uncomfortable
tumescence, as quickly and conveniently as possible, or making use of it as
part of a lustful fantasy? I suspect it's the latter which is objectionable
to some Christians.

Jani

[* irenic *]

<>

Post by Jani

Post by * irenic *
And many of both genders do not use their imagination at all while
masturbating...

True. But are you talking about disposing of a rather uncomfortable
tumescence, as quickly and conveniently as possible, or making use of it
as
part of a lustful fantasy? I suspect it's the latter which is
objectionable
to some Christians.
Jani

Correct, and the _addictive_ potential in the habit... They're the two
problems I suggested in my article...
--
Shalom! Rowland Croucher

"If only it were so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere
insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary to separate them
from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil
cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy
a piece of his own heart?" Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/ - 17,400 articles; 4000 jokes/funnies

[r***@gmail.com]

Post by Pastor Dave
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful?

No.

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by Pastor Dave
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful?

No.

Wrong. The saints of the Egyptian desert would spend an entire _year_ in
repentance for a single instance of this sin. And they were rewarded with the
ability to see miracles for this. How, then, could it not be sinful?

[r***@gmail.com]

Post by Pastor Dave
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful?

No.

[* irenic *]

Post by Pastor Dave
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful?

No.

Or, better, 'not necessarily'...
--
Shalom! Rowland Croucher

"If only it were so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere
insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary to separate them
from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil
cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy
a piece of his own heart?" Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/ - 17,400 articles; 4000 jokes/funnies

[Jeff Caird]

Post by Pastor Dave
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful?

No.

The major error of the masturbation=sin advocates is in
believing that masturbation=sex. Wrong. Sex requires a
minumum of two participants, who must be physically present.
(That rules out phone 'sex') A person in a work of
pornography is not a participant. Which leads to another error.

The masturbation=sin advocates may counter that the act of
'lusting after a woman [to have sex with her]' is what
condemns the 'sinner.' So, the logic goes, a teenage boy
masturbating to pictures of Playmates has sinned. I don't
think so. There are a couple of things missing.

1. Intent. Is he really going to stalk a Playmate?
After he has tossed the magazine aside and washed his
hands, is she on his mind any more?

2. Opportunity. What are the chances, really, of his
being able to score with a particular Playmate? If
our teenager should apply himself to his studies and
pursue an endeavor that renders him sufficiently
well-to-do, will he go rifling through old copies of
Playboy to find the target of his teenage 'lust?'

I think not on both questions.

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by Jeff Caird

Post by Pastor Dave
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful?

No.

The major error of the masturbation=sin advocates is in
believing that masturbation=sex. Wrong.

Sorry, guy, the major error is yours.

Post by Jeff Caird
Sex requires a
minumum of two participants, who must be physically present.

Says who? Why, you give the best counterexample in your own words below.

Post by Jeff Caird
(That rules out phone 'sex')

No, you have it exactly backwards. The fact that the expression "phone sex" has
become so firmly entrenched in Modern English is the proof that your definition
must be incomplete, if not outright incorrect.

Post by Jeff Caird
A person in a work of
pornography is not a participant. Which leads to another error.
The masturbation=sin advocates may counter that the act of
'lusting after a woman [to have sex with her]' is what
condemns the 'sinner.' So, the logic goes, a teenage boy
masturbating to pictures of Playmates has sinned. I don't
think so.

Well, to put it bluntly, Jeff, who CARES what you think? You have done NOTHING
to establish your credibility as an expert concerning what is, and what is not
'sin'. On the contrary: you have done much to erode your credibility, even in
your rather short time in this NG.

Post by Jeff Caird
There are a couple of things missing.

Only for people who follow your _broken_ definition.

[snip]

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by * irenic *

Post by Pastor Dave
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful?

No.

Or, better, 'not necessarily'...

I suppose that is 'better', in the sense that having one fingernail pulled out
is better than having them all pulled out.

But it still leaves the fundamental painful error: fooling people into not
confessing their sin.

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by Jeff Caird

Post by Pastor Dave
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful?

No.

The major error of the masturbation=sin advocates is in
believing that masturbation=sex. Wrong.

#Sorry, guy, the major error is yours.

Nonsense. My position is logical and rational.

Post by Jeff Caird
Sex requires a
minumum of two participants, who must be physically present.

#Says who? Why, you give the best counterexample in your own words below.

Sez me. How so?

Post by Jeff Caird
(That rules out phone 'sex')

#No, you have it exactly backwards. The fact that the expression "phone sex" has
#become so firmly entrenched in Modern English is the proof that your definition
#must be incomplete, if not outright incorrect.

Non-sequitor.

Post by Jeff Caird
A person in a work of
pornography is not a participant. Which leads to another error.
The masturbation=sin advocates may counter that the act of
'lusting after a woman [to have sex with her]' is what
condemns the 'sinner.' So, the logic goes, a teenage boy
masturbating to pictures of Playmates has sinned. I don't
think so.

#Well, to put it bluntly, Jeff, who CARES what you think?

Apparently YOU do, else you would not have responded.

#You have done NOTHING to establish your credibility as an
#expert concerning what is, and what is not 'sin'.

Well, something is sin if the BIBLE says so. The Bible never
mentions masturbation.

#On the contrary: you have done much to erode your credibility, even in
#your rather short time in this NG.

Uncalled for.

Post by Jeff Caird
There are a couple of things missing.

#Only for people who follow your _broken_ definition.

No, the old definition is what is broken. In the nineteenth
century, supposed 'experts' were obsessed with masturbation as
both sin and a physically deleterious phenomenon. Clergy and
layman alike railed against it. Inventors devised devices to
prevent it. Messrs. Kellog and C.W. Post and Graham
recommended diets of whole grains and no meat to kill the
impulse to 'abuse onself,' all to no avail. Furthermore, all
this did actual harm to generations of young boys.

"Shake it twice to clear the bore,
shake it thrice, you've sinned some more."

We've all heard that, no? These generations of boys were
afraid to flick the last drops of urine for fear of hellfire.
Later, if they attended college, there were monitors who sat
up in the dorm rooms and made sure all the young men kept
their hands outside the bedclothes, lest they sin and amble
down the path to perdition. Even in supposedly more
enlightened days, the Boy Scout manual warned eleven year-olds
to 'conserve your power,' as if it were something finite that
could be frittered away in a weak moment.

What a crock.

[snip]
[snap]

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by Matthew Johnson

Post by Jeff Caird

Post by Pastor Dave
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 03:25:03 GMT, "B.G. Kent"

Post by * irenic *
Is Masturbation sinful?

No.

The major error of the masturbation=sin advocates is in
believing that masturbation=sex. Wrong.

#Sorry, guy, the major error is yours.
Nonsense. My position is logical and rational.

No, Jeff, your position is neither. And in fact, your _entire_ post is made even
more illogical by you failure to observe simple, Internet standard quoting
practice. Why, somehow you even got mixed up who is doing the response. Your
reply showed up with my name as the author!

[snip]

[Burkladies]

I think you both need prayer. Masterbation and sex is all in the mind
anyway. And powerful stuff the mind can be. At least the women of
the bible had that right.

Matthew Johnson wrote:
...

Post by Matthew Johnson
No, Jeff, your position is neither. And in fact, your _entire_ post is made even
more illogical by you failure to observe simple, Internet standard quoting
practice. Why, somehow you even got mixed up who is doing the response. Your
reply showed up with my name as the author!
[snip]
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)

[Jeff Caird]

Post by Matthew Johnson

Post by Matthew Johnson
Nonsense. My position is logical and rational.

No, Jeff, your position is neither. And in fact, your _entire_ post is made even
more illogical by you failure to observe simple, Internet standard quoting
practice. Why, somehow you even got mixed up who is doing the response. Your
reply showed up with my name as the author!
[snip]

Nice misdirection, sir, but you have refuted not _one_ of my
statements. If you can't refute the content, attack the form,
eh?

(Since I use dial-up, it is often inconvenient to thoughtfully
reply online, therefore I download the post and edit it
offline in a text editor. Sometimes things go awry.)

Masturbation is not sex, and therefore is not by and of itself
sin.

[Jeff Caird]

Post by Burkladies
I think you both need prayer. Masterbation and sex is all in the mind
anyway. And powerful stuff the mind can be. At least the women of
the bible had that right.

Huh?

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by Jeff Caird

Post by Matthew Johnson

Post by Matthew Johnson
Nonsense. My position is logical and rational.

No, Jeff, your position is neither. And in fact, your _entire_ post is made even
more illogical by you failure to observe simple, Internet standard quoting
practice. Why, somehow you even got mixed up who is doing the response. Your
reply showed up with my name as the author!
[snip]

Nice misdirection, sir, but you have refuted not _one_ of my
statements. If you can't refute the content, attack the form,
eh?

But this too, is fallacious. When the form is as badly messed up as yours was,
the content suffers, too. Indeed, it suffered _so_ badly, there was nothing
coherent enough to refute.

[snip]

[Jeff Caird]

On 2006-06-23, Matthew Johnson <***@newsguy.com> wrote:
[...]

Post by Matthew Johnson

Post by Jeff Caird
Nice misdirection, sir, but you have refuted not _one_ of my
statements. If you can't refute the content, attack the form,
eh?

But this too, is fallacious. When the form is as badly messed up as yours was,
the content suffers, too. Indeed, it suffered _so_ badly, there was nothing
coherent enough to refute.
[snip]

In other words, you have nothing of substance to contribute to
the debate.

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by Jeff Caird
[...]

Post by Matthew Johnson

Post by Jeff Caird
Nice misdirection, sir, but you have refuted not _one_ of my
statements. If you can't refute the content, attack the form,
eh?

But this too, is fallacious. When the form is as badly messed up as yours was,
the content suffers, too. Indeed, it suffered _so_ badly, there was nothing
coherent enough to refute.
[snip]

In other words, you have nothing of substance to contribute to
the debate.

No, it is you who has nothing to contribute, and who has contributed
nothing.
--
-------------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)

---

[If this discussion is going to continue, it needs some substance, don't
you think? --clh]