I Want To Believe...

[Mother Goose]

But I really just can't. I am currently agnostic, but I am leaning
atheist everyday. I have returned to the bible after years, and am
searching for answers, but I just can't accept what I am reading. I
often debate for hours with my friend, a devoted Christian, about the
nature of "God" and the bible and its teachings. I want to accept it, I
want to believe in God and have something to dedicate my life to. I
don't want to believe that life is pointless, and that when you die you
just sit and rot in the ground. I have often prayed to the god I am not
sure I believe in to give me something to believe in, even something
false, so my mind can be at peace. But so far it hasn't happened and I
don't think it ever will.

I have tried so many things to get answers. I pray, I search for even
the most subtle of signs, I reason with people of all religions, but I
cannot accept in my heart and mind the existence of a god or soul. I
try so hard to embody religion, but in the darkest and coldest part of
my mind I know that life is just existence, that there is nobody who
cares or watches over me. I have been told time and time again that
this is "Satan's logic" , but that's bullshit. Satan has nothing to do
with this. This is my logic, and it speaks out against religion and
Christianity so strongly it is impossible to ignore. So I am hoping
that you Christians here on this board will have some philosophy or
shred of logic that I can agree with, that will persuade me towards
your god and Christ. Because right now, I am not getting anywhere.

[B.G. Kent]

Hello....

interpret as your higher self wills it.
You don't have to swallow the interp of other human beings on the
Bible...I certainly don't. And don't let anyone tell you ,that you are
not Christian when you are kind and help others and treat others as
yourself. THAT is what makes you Christian as far as I am concerned. The
Bible is a book...God is God. The BIBLE MAY be Gods word..but then again
...it may be only partially Gods word or not Gods word at all..use your
inner guidance.


that is my advice.

Blessings
Bren

Post by Mother Goose
But I really just can't. I am currently agnostic, but I am leaning
atheist everyday. I have returned to the bible after years, and am
searching for answers, but I just can't accept what I am reading. I
often debate for hours with my friend, a devoted Christian, about the

[suneejan]

Hi
The Holy Bible is the word of God in which we should use it for
instruction on how to live our lives. The book of proverbs teaches a
person a lot.
To the non-believer the scriptures will be like a story. After a
person accepts Jesus Christ as God's son and ask Jesus in theire life,
then the scriptures will be understood more fully. 1 Timothy 2:5 says
that there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man
Christ Jesus.
The key is to believe that God is God and that Jesus is God's son who
he sent to earth to die for a person's sin. In Romans 3:23 it says
that everyone has sinnedand fallen short. Romans 6:23 says that the
wages of sin is death. That verse also says that God gave us humans a
gift of eternal life which is thru HIS son Jesus Christ. Read John
3:16 God sent His son so that those who believe will not perish but
have everlasting life. To get this eternal life one needs to pray to
God and tell God that they believe in God and that Jesus is his son.
who died on the cross for that person. Also ask God for forgiveness of
the sins that were doneand ask HIM to come into their life. Then God
is faithfull and will forgive that person and come into their life.Rev.
3:20.
The Holy Bible is a large book to go thru and at times I ask God for
understanding of a particular part. HE gives the understanding. Ask
God to make HIMSELF real to you so you will know that HE is real. Ask
yourself was there a time you should of been hurt and wasn't? At this
time you probably were under God's protection.
God has done many things in my life such as protected me in 2 house
fires, healed my daughters eardrums, and so much more.
Let me know if you have further questions. I will be praying for you.
Have a good day.

Post by Mother Goose
But I really just can't. I am currently agnostic, but I am leaning
atheist everyday. I have returned to the bible after years, and am
searching for answers, but I just can't accept what I am reading. I
often debate for hours with my friend, a devoted Christian, about the
nature of "God" and the bible and its teachings. I want to accept it, I
want to believe in God and have something to dedicate my life to. I
don't want to believe that life is pointless, and that when you die you
just sit and rot in the ground. I have often prayed to the god I am not
sure I believe in to give me something to believe in, even something
false, so my mind can be at peace. But so far it hasn't happened and I
don't think it ever will.
I have tried so many things to get answers. I pray, I search for even
the most subtle of signs, I reason with people of all religions, but I
cannot accept in my heart and mind the existence of a god or soul. I
try so hard to embody religion, but in the darkest and coldest part of
my mind I know that life is just existence, that there is nobody who
cares or watches over me. I have been told time and time again that
this is "Satan's logic" , but that's bullshit. Satan has nothing to do
with this. This is my logic, and it speaks out against religion and
Christianity so strongly it is impossible to ignore. So I am hoping
that you Christians here on this board will have some philosophy or
shred of logic that I can agree with, that will persuade me towards
your god and Christ. Because right now, I am not getting anywhere.

[B.G. Kent]

Post by suneejan
Hi
The Holy Bible is the word of God in which we should use it for
instruction on how to live our lives. The book of proverbs teaches a

B - YOu still have not proven Suneenan...of what you speak.
How is MOther Goose supposed to just do what you say...when she has been
there already?


Blessings
Bren

ps. I'm happy that your daughters eardrums healed. Praise God.

[suneejan]

Bren
Just because a person is kind and help others does not make that person
a Christian. A true Christian is one who follows Jesus Christ
teachings! And one of those teachings is that one needs to be born
again! This is talked about in John Chapter 3. And to be certain of
salvation is told in 1 john 5:11-13. The Holy Bible is the word of God
...2Timothy 3:16. The Bible can be referred to Basic Instruction
Before Leaving Earth. Also look at Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you
have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the
gift of God, NOT OF WORKS, lest anyone should boast.

Post by B.G. Kent
Hello....
interpret as your higher self wills it.
You don't have to swallow the interp of other human beings on the
Bible...I certainly don't. And don't let anyone tell you ,that you are
not Christian when you are kind and help others and treat others as
yourself. THAT is what makes you Christian as far as I am concerned. The
Bible is a book...God is God. The BIBLE MAY be Gods word..but then again
...it may be only partially Gods word or not Gods word at all..use your
inner guidance.
that is my advice.
Blessings
Bren

Post by Mother Goose
But I really just can't. I am currently agnostic, but I am leaning
atheist everyday. I have returned to the bible after years, and am
searching for answers, but I just can't accept what I am reading. I
often debate for hours with my friend, a devoted Christian, about the

[c***@gmail.com]

I hate to be mean but suneejan, your reply is absolutely ridiculous
friend. Mother Goose obviously does not believe in God or the bible,
and you start off your post with this sentence "The Holy Bible is the
word of God..."
The next few statements you explain how a non-believer will not be able
to fully understand scripture and that the key is to accept Jesus.
Well, how does one come to accept Jesus? Isn't the typical answer to
read scripture? Doesn't this create an impossible situation?
What if you ask repeatedly for Jesus to come into your life and nothing
ever happens?

Perhaps you should also think about these questions - Who started those
housefires and problems in your daughter's eardrums? Why wouldn't God
protect you from that happening in the first place? Was he too busy
and then popped in at the nick of time like Superman? Also, who
created God?

Post by suneejan
Hi
The Holy Bible is the word of God in which we should use it for
instruction on how to live our lives. The book of proverbs teaches a
person a lot.
To the non-believer the scriptures will be like a story. After a
person accepts Jesus Christ as God's son and ask Jesus in theire life,
then the scriptures will be understood more fully. 1 Timothy 2:5 says
that there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man
Christ Jesus.

...

[B.G. Kent]

Post by suneejan
Hi
The Holy Bible is the word of God in which we should use it for
instruction on how to live our lives. The book of proverbs teaches a

B - YOu still have not proven Suneenan...of what you speak.
How is MOther Goose supposed to just do what you say...when she has been
there already?


Blessings
Bren

ps. I'm happy that your daughters eardrums healed. Praise God.

[suneejan]

Bren
Just because a person is kind and help others does not make that person
a Christian. A true Christian is one who follows Jesus Christ
teachings! And one of those teachings is that one needs to be born
again! This is talked about in John Chapter 3. And to be certain of
salvation is told in 1 john 5:11-13. The Holy Bible is the word of God
...2Timothy 3:16. The Bible can be referred to Basic Instruction
Before Leaving Earth. Also look at Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you
have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the
gift of God, NOT OF WORKS, lest anyone should boast.

Post by B.G. Kent
Hello....
interpret as your higher self wills it.
You don't have to swallow the interp of other human beings on the
Bible...I certainly don't. And don't let anyone tell you ,that you are
not Christian when you are kind and help others and treat others as
yourself. THAT is what makes you Christian as far as I am concerned. The
Bible is a book...God is God. The BIBLE MAY be Gods word..but then again
...it may be only partially Gods word or not Gods word at all..use your
inner guidance.
that is my advice.
Blessings
Bren

Post by Mother Goose
But I really just can't. I am currently agnostic, but I am leaning
atheist everyday. I have returned to the bible after years, and am
searching for answers, but I just can't accept what I am reading. I
often debate for hours with my friend, a devoted Christian, about the

[c***@gmail.com]

I hate to be mean but suneejan, your reply is absolutely ridiculous
friend. Mother Goose obviously does not believe in God or the bible,
and you start off your post with this sentence "The Holy Bible is the
word of God..."
The next few statements you explain how a non-believer will not be able
to fully understand scripture and that the key is to accept Jesus.
Well, how does one come to accept Jesus? Isn't the typical answer to
read scripture? Doesn't this create an impossible situation?
What if you ask repeatedly for Jesus to come into your life and nothing
ever happens?

Perhaps you should also think about these questions - Who started those
housefires and problems in your daughter's eardrums? Why wouldn't God
protect you from that happening in the first place? Was he too busy
and then popped in at the nick of time like Superman? Also, who
created God?

Post by suneejan
Hi
The Holy Bible is the word of God in which we should use it for
instruction on how to live our lives. The book of proverbs teaches a
person a lot.
To the non-believer the scriptures will be like a story. After a
person accepts Jesus Christ as God's son and ask Jesus in theire life,
then the scriptures will be understood more fully. 1 Timothy 2:5 says
that there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man
Christ Jesus.

...

[B.G. Kent]

Post by suneejan
Bren
Just because a person is kind and help others does not make that person
a Christian. A true Christian is one who follows Jesus Christ
teachings! And one of those teachings is that one needs to be born
again! This is talked about in John Chapter 3. And to be certain of

B - Please prove. When you stop making statements of fact that you cannot
prove....I will stop asking you to prove.

thanks.

Bren

[suneejan]

God is the Creator and been here since the beginning of time. I can
testify to the things that happened to me since I believe. It is the
matter where you put your trust. I put my trust and faith in the
Bible. Everybody has a choice on rather to believe the Bible or not.
HGod is so loving that HE gives us that choice. I hope Mother Goose
will ask God to make HIMSELF real in her life. If there was a
circumstances that she should of been hurt and wasn't.

Post by c***@gmail.com
I hate to be mean but suneejan, your reply is absolutely ridiculous
friend. Mother Goose obviously does not believe in God or the bible,
and you start off your post with this sentence "The Holy Bible is the
word of God..."
The next few statements you explain how a non-believer will not be able
to fully understand scripture and that the key is to accept Jesus.
Well, how does one come to accept Jesus? Isn't the typical answer to
read scripture? Doesn't this create an impossible situation?
What if you ask repeatedly for Jesus to come into your life and nothing
ever happens?
Perhaps you should also think about these questions - Who started those
housefires and problems in your daughter's eardrums? Why wouldn't God
protect you from that happening in the first place? Was he too busy
and then popped in at the nick of time like Superman? Also, who
created God?

...

[B.G. Kent]

Post by suneejan
Bren
Just because a person is kind and help others does not make that person
a Christian. A true Christian is one who follows Jesus Christ

B - In your opinion.

Blessings
Bren

ps. can you please not send emails to my personal email address and just
put it here on the group? thankyou.

---

[That a Christian is one who follows Christ would appear to be a
matter of definition, not opinion. This is separate from the question
of whether only followers of Christ as saved, or whether only
followers of Christ are nice people, etc.

--clh]

[suneejan]

One needs to be sincere in asking Jesus in their life amd asking for
forgiveness. God is faithfull in answering the prayers. Scriptures
does show one the Jesus is the son of God. One does notices there are
2 forces that is in this world..good and evil. Satan wants to be god
of this world and tries to destroy what God has created thru sickness.
wars, anger, etc. We humans have a choice to follow God or Satan. I
chose to follow God. I believe this angered Satan and he wants to
destroy my faith. God is protecting mefrom the attacks. Just because I
have Jesus in my heart this will make life easy. It means I have God
who loves and protects me. Read Psalmns 121.

Post by c***@gmail.com
I hate to be mean but suneejan, your reply is absolutely ridiculous
friend. Mother Goose obviously does not believe in God or the bible,
and you start off your post with this sentence "The Holy Bible is the
word of God..."
The next few statements you explain how a non-believer will not be able
to fully understand scripture and that the key is to accept Jesus.
Well, how does one come to accept Jesus? Isn't the typical answer to
read scripture? Doesn't this create an impossible situation?
What if you ask repeatedly for Jesus to come into your life and nothing
ever happens?
Perhaps you should also think about these questions - Who started those
housefires and problems in your daughter's eardrums? Why wouldn't God
protect you from that happening in the first place? Was he too busy
and then popped in at the nick of time like Superman? Also, who
created God?

[zach]

Post by B.G. Kent
Hello....
interpret as your higher self wills it.
You don't have to swallow the interp of other human beings on the
Bible...I certainly don't. And don't let anyone tell you ,that you are
not Christian when you are kind and help others and treat others as
yourself. THAT is what makes you Christian as far as I am concerned.

So Atheists are Christians now, too, Bren? I think anyone who would
call him or herself thusly would disagree...

[B.G. Kent]

Post by suneejan
God is the Creator and been here since the beginning of time.

B - Opinion only.


I can

Post by suneejan
testify to the things that happened to me since I believe. It is the
matter where you put your trust.

B - true but that is my opinion.


I put my trust and faith in the

Post by suneejan
Bible. Everybody has a choice on rather to believe the Bible or not.

B - Yes...but why do you insist on forcing others to believe as you do?

Post by suneejan
God is so loving that HE gives us that choice.

B - opinion again.


I hope Mother Goose

Post by suneejan
will ask God to make HIMSELF real in her life. If there was a
circumstances that she should of been hurt and wasn't.

B - well as you said...everyone has that choice right?

Blessings
Bren

[B.G. Kent]

Post by zach

Post by B.G. Kent
Hello....
interpret as your higher self wills it.
You don't have to swallow the interp of other human beings on the
Bible...I certainly don't. And don't let anyone tell you ,that you are
not Christian when you are kind and help others and treat others as
yourself. THAT is what makes you Christian as far as I am concerned.

So Atheists are Christians now, too, Bren? I think anyone who would
call him or herself thusly would disagree...

B - in my interp of what I believe is Gods voice and guidance speaking to
me? Yes. Labels...are just that...Labels....look beyond the label.
Anyone can disagree...I never said I have the answers...I just have my own
opinion..like we all have.


Blessings
Bren

[B.G. Kent]

Post by suneejan
One needs to be sincere in asking Jesus in their life amd asking for
forgiveness. God is faithfull in answering the prayers. Scriptures
does show one the Jesus is the son of God. One does notices there are
2 forces that is in this world..good and evil. Satan wants to be god
of this world and tries to destroy what God has created thru sickness.
wars, anger, etc. We humans have a choice to follow God or Satan. I

B - How do you know?

How do you know those two forces are not Love and fear?

Bren

[v***@gmail.com]

So, by this following logic:

Either God is not all-powerful because Satan's deeds (sickness, wars,
anger, etc) are not only sucessful but prevalent, or

Satan is an "employee" of God who's deeds are permitted by God at His
discression.

I lurk on this news group for the pure entertainment value of it.

Post by suneejan
One needs to be sincere in asking Jesus in their life amd asking for
forgiveness. God is faithfull in answering the prayers. Scriptures
does show one the Jesus is the son of God. One does notices there are
2 forces that is in this world..good and evil. Satan wants to be god
of this world and tries to destroy what God has created thru sickness.
wars, anger, etc. We humans have a choice to follow God or Satan. I
chose to follow God. I believe this angered Satan and he wants to
destroy my faith. God is protecting mefrom the attacks. Just because I
have Jesus in my heart this will make life easy. It means I have God
who loves and protects me. Read Psalmns 121.

[s***@yahoo.com]

Man, I am totally where you're at. And I completely get what you're
going through. "Going through." That's not exactly it...

Sounds like you got enough sense, like me, to discuss the issues with
Christians who have integrity and intelligence. My mistake before was I
thought God's fan club was evidence for or against God. But let's face
it, idiots can be athiestic, too, and equally as fervent and
self-serving.

For example, the fuel for my atheistic episodes was this: Christians
are weaker than me because they cannot accept death. (Wrong, damnit.
People fear death sometimes, but that's not the basis for
Christianity.) I thought, too, that hristianity was the easy route that
people took to relieve themselves from difficult questions. (Damnit,
wrong again. Way off. I only thought that, just between us, because I
have a life-is-a-struggle fetish. A cheap gift from my suffering
grandparents. My cynicism's not even my own--I inhereted it, thinking
it was a virtue.) I can go on with twenty or more other thoughts that
turned out to be as ill-thought-out as all the others I'd been
lambasting with logic.

At any rate, since I gotta head out the door now, I'm gonna leave you
with this hyperlink. It was a non-stop, hard-hitting, delightful dose
of clarity and realism (finally!) about Christianity. It is the online
text of C.S. Lewis's "Mere Christianity."

And, also, thanks for posting. What a relief to find someone who can
honestly state he position their in. And still continue on with the
search. You rock.

http://www.lib.ru/LEWISCL/mere_engl.txt

[Matthew Johnson]

Post by v***@gmail.com
Either God is not all-powerful because Satan's deeds (sickness, wars,
anger, etc) are not only sucessful but prevalent, or
Satan is an "employee" of God who's deeds are permitted by God at His
discression.

The son of a priest, Mikhail Bulgakov, wrote a brilliant novel illustrating this
latter idea. It is called "The Master and Margarita". The main character is the
devil, who has arrived in Moscow to punish the Communists and reward the
'Master'. But he can do nothing on his own, and takes orders from St. Matthew
the Evangelist, who they call (in the book) "Matthew the Levite".Predictably,
some Russian Orthodox priests condemn the book, but delightfully, many recommend
it.

It is available in two different English translations. I slightly prefer
Glenny's.

Post by v***@gmail.com
I lurk on this news group for the pure entertainment value of it.

Well, that is not quite as sick as watching 'Elimidate' or "reality shows", but
you are getting dangerously close;)

[suneejan]

That sounds like an interesting book. Another good author is Frank
Peretti. He wrote Ever Present Darkness and The Monster.

Post by Matthew Johnson
The son of a priest, Mikhail Bulgakov, wrote a brilliant novel
illustrating this latter idea. It is called "The Master and
Margarita". The main character is the devil, who has arrived in
Moscow to punish the Communists and reward the 'Master'. But he can
do nothing on his own, and takes orders from St. Matthew the
Evangelist, who they call (in the book) "Matthew the
Levite".Predictably, some Russian Orthodox priests condemn the book,
but delightfully, many recommend it.