Established Church

[k***@astound.net]

There has been a lot of "ink" spilled lately about whether or not the
United States is a Christian nation. I am not addressing that question.


I am concerned about the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the
Constitution. As is explained in the Wikipedia (under disestablisment)
the first Amendment was originally intended not to prevent the
establishment of churches but rather to prevent the federal government
from interfering in the established churches in the various states.
This was desireable because the states differed and had established
different churches.

More recently the Fourteenth Amendment (passed after all the state
churches has been disestablished) has been apparently interpreted to
apply the first amendment to the states.

But there does not seem to have been any actual test before the Supreme
Court.

It would seem to me that groups who believe that the United States is a
Christian nation should start with the proposition that, say, North
Dakota is a Christian state. There are fifty states and they should be
able to get at least one of them to establish Christianity. That done
they wait until someone, say the ACLU, objects on constitutional
grounds and then the matter goes eventually to the national Supreme
Court.

I am not a lawyer, but I would judge this question one where there is a
good chance that the Supreme Court would go with states rights. If the
case wins before the Supreme Court then the Christians can proceed to
try to make all the states Christian which would effectively be the
same thing as a Christian nation.

But I have detected no such activity among Christians. Have I missed
something?

[Eric]

<snips>

Post by k***@astound.net
It would seem to me that groups who believe that the United States is a
Christian nation should start with the proposition that, say, North
Dakota is a Christian state. There are fifty states and they should be
able to get at least one of them to establish Christianity. That done
they wait until someone, say the ACLU, objects on constitutional
grounds and then the matter goes eventually to the national Supreme
Court.

<snip>

The constitution and the amendments are such that a state or national
religion cannot be established by the Senate of the United States. The
provision that is often overlooked; however, is that they shall also
make no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof. If the majority of
the state, or the nation should decide to practice Christianity, there
could be now law prohibiting the free exercise of that religion. The
same would apply to Buddhism, or the occult if such was the will of the
people.

To actually have the case tried in court to establish a state religion
is not within the bounds of the Constitution or the amendments thereto.
To do so would fly in the face of the very reasons that the pilgrims
fled from England. It would also deny those who escape to America
because of the religious fervor or oppression of their countries of
origin the right to worship or not to worship according to the dictates
of their own conscience.

[b***@juno.com]

Post by k***@astound.net
But I have detected no such activity among Christians. Have I missed
something?

Making America into an "officially Christian" nation would be a very
bad idea. The very reason why Christianity is still very strong in
America is precisely because it is NOT established officially.

Let's take the UK. The Church of England is "officially established"
there as a state church. What has happened? The church is dying. The
pews are getting emptier with each passing year. The Ministers don't
have to make their message relevant, since they will still get a
paycheck regardless. Result? Dead Christianity.

On the other hand, in America, every church has to compete in a fiercly
Democratic marketplace of ideas. If the laity don't like the message of
a pastor, they just leave. This means that some of the churches die
off. But those that remain are virtualy POWERHOUSES of Holy Spirit
fire! When you have to fight to stay alive, you are guaranteed to be
truly alive!

Thus, it was a masterstroke by the founding fathers to DIS-establish
Christianity. In doing so, they ensured that no church would last for
long if the Holy Spirit decided to leave. Which means that every single
church we see on every street corner in America, is either CURRENTLY
under the power of the Holy Spirit........ or else had it a just a
little while ago, and just recently lost it.

"Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain who try and build
it."

[Ima Biblicist]

Group: soc.religion.christian Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2006, 3:21am (MDT+6)
From: ***@astound.net, asks:


If the case wins before the Supreme Court then the Christians can
proceed to try to make all the states Christian which would effectively
be the same thing as a Christian nation.


But I have detected no such activity among Christians. Have I missed
something?


Answer: Yes: the fact that faith cannot be forced. Christians know
that he who is convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

History shows that one thing that can be counted on is that a state that
calls itself Christian never is.

[Eric]

Post by b***@juno.com

Post by k***@astound.net
But I have detected no such activity among Christians. Have I missed
something?

<snips points with which I wholehartedly agree>

Post by b***@juno.com
Thus, it was a masterstroke by the founding fathers to DIS-establish
Christianity.

<snips support of the initial statement>

I have only one miniature qualm with your statement that the founding
fathers meant to dis-establish Christianity. I do not believe that
such was the case. It is my opinion that the founding fathers meant
only to disallow the power of government to establish a state religion.
They understood the need for men to be able to worship, or to not
worship according to that which was in their own views of the pursuit
of life, liberty and of happiness. Christianity was the religious view
of the majority of the early settlers of the United States, but there
is no reason that the majority could not choose another religion to
support.

<snip scripture>