b***@allvantage.com
2006-07-17 17:05:10 UTC
Re: Did Jesus Sin?
If I took this question to the averaje church, I'd probably be yelled
out of it.
He was God, right? So he can't sin.
The problem is that we hav only his word for his being God.
I'll giv you that he was an _emissary_ of God.
The first bit of clear nonsense is in verse fifty, where Jesus says
that "I do not seek My own glory...". That contradicts what he says in
verse fifty-eight: "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I
AM".
You might not see anything wrong with that in English, except for the
shift in tense from the past tense to the present. That capitalized "I
AM" is more than that. He seems to be saying that Jesus is a being with
the past and future always before him, and since "I AM" translates from
YHWH, this is exactly where Jesus claims to be God. It is the same as
swearing in Hebrew.
Jesus might hav been the Son of Man, perhaps the Son of God, and
certainly an emissary of God, but to _be_ God, he had to be omnicient,
omnipotent, and omnipresent. These traits are beyond the flesh, so it
is impossible for a being of the flesh to be God.
<some snipping-soc.religion.christian does not allow a lot ofIf I took this question to the averaje church, I'd probably be yelled
out of it.
He was God, right? So he can't sin.
The problem is that we hav only his word for his being God.
I'll giv you that he was an _emissary_ of God.
The first bit of clear nonsense is in verse fifty, where Jesus says
that "I do not seek My own glory...". That contradicts what he says in
verse fifty-eight: "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I
AM".
You might not see anything wrong with that in English, except for the
shift in tense from the past tense to the present. That capitalized "I
AM" is more than that. He seems to be saying that Jesus is a being with
the past and future always before him, and since "I AM" translates from
YHWH, this is exactly where Jesus claims to be God. It is the same as
swearing in Hebrew.
Jesus might hav been the Son of Man, perhaps the Son of God, and
certainly an emissary of God, but to _be_ God, he had to be omnicient,
omnipotent, and omnipresent. These traits are beyond the flesh, so it
is impossible for a being of the flesh to be God.
quotation>
Hello,
Yes, the Bible never taught that Jesus was God, and Jesus never claimed
he was.
For example, the Bible tells us that God has always lived. Ps 90:2,
"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the
world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (NIV)
But the Bible tells us that Jesus was created. Col 1:15,
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."
(NASB)
Thus they can't be the same person, otherwise Jesus would have had to
have been "from everlasting to everlasting" also.
And nowhere in the Bible does Jesus ever say he was "God". Rather, one
description he used was that he was "God's Son". (Joh 10:36)
Concerning Jesus using the present tense at Joh 8:58, in actuality the
Greek verb there is in the "historical present". Also, there is a
different usage of the "I AM" in Exodus than here. Let me explain.
Jesus knew he existed before the world was made, but this doesn't prove
he was God Almighty. (John 17:5) Many angels also existed before the
world was created. (Job 38:7). In Exodus 3:14 God was using this as a
title and name to be used against the Egyptians.
A Bible scholar Dr. J.H. Hertz said that in that phrase 'I am that I
am' the main emphasis in on the active manifestation of God's Divine
existence. He said that God was about to show himself in behalf of his
people in great and wonderful way. He said that "I will be what I will
be" is also an approved rendering.
The footnote to the NASB Bible agrees and says, "1.14 Or I WILL BE WHAT
I WILL BE " .
When Jesus used the phrase he was not using it as a name or title. He
was only explaining his pre-human existence.
The Greek Septuagint Version, which is the one the Apostles quoted from
in the first century, renders Exodus 3:14 as " ego' eimi' ho Ohn',"
which translates "I am the Being". The Greek words at John 8:58 "ego
eimi" show the use of the verb "eimi" in the historical present because
Jesus was talking about himself in relation to Abraham's past. That is
why some translations render it differently. For example:
--An American Translation reads. "I existed before Abraham was born!",
--Moffatt, "I have existed before Abraham was born",
--Sacred Bible, "Before Abraham existed, I was existing",
--The New Testament, "Jesus said to them, 'I tell you, I existed before
Abraham was born!",
--The Four Gospels According the the Sinaitic Palimpsest, "He said unto
them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I have
been.",
So Jesus was not claiming to be God there, nor was Jesus contradicting
himself from any other earlier statements. I hope this has helped to
increase your Bible knowledge somewhat.
Sincerely, James
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